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#1 Wed, Jul 7, 2010 5:51 AM

bdukek
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Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

I was hoping that someone could shed some light on this for me...I have been skiing for years and occasionally ski on my sister's ski with double hight wraps.  I love the extra control it gives, but recently had a mishap trying to get up (very strange because I can get out of the water behind most any boat usually).  My rear knee twisted and had a zinging or popping sensation.  I am still limping around in pain now a few days later....didn't even get to ski!  Can anyone share their experiences here?  Is the double high wrap ski dangerous to the knees?  Or did I just twist or turn something wrong?  I hope that I will ski on her ski again as it is soooo enjoyable, but I am afraid I might be afraid.  Going in for the MRI in a few days to see what exactly I pulled.  I am hoping that I am not just getting old...yikes

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#2 Wed, Jul 7, 2010 6:04 AM

dc4strillon
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

Well, i've been in a double high wrap for 5 years now and haven't had an injury like the one you had, but i don't know if there's anyone else who might have an experience like yours

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#3 Wed, Jul 7, 2010 7:25 AM

HO410
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

Sounds like your back knee got pulled out to the side when you tried to get up. I can see how that could hurt your knee, but it's not particularly common among the 50 or skiers I see at tournaments every summer.

I guess you normally ski with a toe plate, do you get up foot in or foot out?

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#4 Wed, Jul 7, 2010 8:27 AM

BudMan
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

I've been using double high wraps of different kinds for 20 years. I never had that happen getting up. HO410 might be right.


Life is great! Enjoy every minute!

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#5 Wed, Jul 7, 2010 9:50 AM

tafkas1
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

i have also been skiing with double high wraps for years. but recently tried a more aggressive hardshell and tore my hammy. i had never had a problem before.  i think the more restrictions placed on your legs compared to the freedom of movement your body had been used to causes your body to activate it ways it previously wassnt accustomed to. therefore the could be new and undo stresses on a particular area. that may have caused the pain. that may be the case in double high vs rtp for u also

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#6 Wed, Jul 7, 2010 11:03 AM

jbski
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

I've been skiing in double high wraps since the early '80s and have only had one foot/ankle injury in that time, which occurred in a high speed out-the-front that turned into a big body slide to a dead stop when my ski re-entered the water. It basically jammed and hyper flexed my front foot. Hurt like hell and moved some foot bones around, but I didn't miss too much time on the water. I don't think I would've released from a hardshell binding system in that fall - or not in time to prevent the injury.

I'm about to move my youngest son (11) from a high wrap front w/ a rear toe piece to double high wraps because he skis very aggresively and takes some pretty wild falls when his back foot comes out and his front foot is still in. He's skiing at 30 to 34 mph and getting into 22 and only weighs 80 lbs. I think he'll be safer with that back foot connected. We're working on the over-aggressive part of his skiing.

I prefer the release of rubber boots (not laced too tight) and the lack of potential for a surprise pre-release.

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#7 Wed, Jul 7, 2010 12:52 PM

millertime
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

I changed from the RTP to the double a couple years ago and have had fewer problems overall. Having both feet attcahed has helped on the falls for sure.


"It is what it is"

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#8 Wed, Jul 7, 2010 1:37 PM

dwallar
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

I also moved from an RTP to double high wraps (D3 high wraps on a D3 Custom X) a couple years ago because it became apparent that the risk of a spiral fracture of the front leg is much higher with an RTP than with doubles.  I have had several falls and if I release it is generally both feet that come out (good falls eh!).  I would stick with the doubles and write off your experience as an exception.

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#9 Wed, Jul 7, 2010 4:30 PM

bdukek
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

Thanks for all of the feedback, I really appreciate it.  I get so much flak from my husband and dad for skiing with the double high wrap.  It will be great to tell of others who have had good experiences and I will try to right it off as an exception!  Can't wait for some movement without pain, then I will have to hit it again!!!!  Thanks again!

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#10 Thu, Jul 8, 2010 6:57 AM

HO410
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

Joint injuries can be pretty weird. I've always been pretty active, but the worst joint injury I've ever had was walking down a step that was about 1/2" taller than I thought it was. It was a pretty innocent step but the pain was not. Just pay a little bit of attention to keeping your knees together when you get up and this problem should not repeat itself.

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#11 Thu, Jul 8, 2010 8:43 AM

BudMan
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

HO410, Did the step cause a fall or just injury?


Life is great! Enjoy every minute!

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#12 Thu, Jul 8, 2010 9:03 AM

HO410
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

No, stayed standing, it was just suprising. It could have easily gone sideways and hit ligaments but it was nothing more than a mild-hyper extension. It was just one of those weird things. Still not as embarrassing as this: I had a friend that was sitting cross-leg ontop of a picknic table, wiggled over to the edge, and hopped off. It might have been 3 inches to the ground, but his leg had fallen asleep. You might guess, rolled ankle, broken ankle.

Last edited by HO410 (Thu, Jul 8, 2010 9:11 AM)

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#13 Thu, Jul 8, 2010 2:11 PM

Lt Dan
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

I believe that high wraps, especially HO Animals, are the devil.  I nearly completely trashed both ankles last fall with them (skiing too fast and narrow into 4 ball, 15off, 34mph...stabbed the ball, ski stopped and I kept going).  I had a high ankle sprain that took forever (and a great Chiropractor) to get over.

I am using some leftover (yes, I am cheap) Radar RS-1 "hybrid" bindings this year and I love them.   They fit great around the foot but are not tight (my feet used to fall asleep in the Animals after a short set) and have released well every time I needed them (I.e. when my crummy technique gets me into trouble and I go out the front).

I don't know about knee injuries, but these things are terrible on the ankles.  Just my $.02


Struggling yet still smiling

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#14 Thu, Jul 8, 2010 7:00 PM

nam1975
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

Why do skiers often seem to "blame" their bindings for injuries.....obviously lower leg ones??

I don't think any setup lends itself to injuries over the other.


It's tough to ski if your feet aren't comfortable and responsive...

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#15 Fri, Jul 9, 2010 6:04 AM

Lt Dan
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

nam1975 wrote:

Why do skiers often seem to "blame" their bindings for injuries.....obviously lower leg ones??

I don't think any setup lends itself to injuries over the other.


It's tough to ski if your feet aren't comfortable and responsive...

Fair enough...if I had Animals that were comfortable (an oxymoron?) I might not have been injured.


Struggling yet still smiling

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#16 Fri, Jul 9, 2010 7:29 AM

HO410
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

It's pretty easy to move on if your bindings do not perform up to your expectations: even if your expectations are unreasonable. Sometimes you just don't want to see those boots again if you did not release and you felt like you would not have been hurt if you did.


I agree, every binidng setup has its own set of advantages and disadvantages. However, some systems have more advantages than others. At least that's my experience.

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#17 Sat, Jul 10, 2010 11:45 AM

Michael_D_Henry
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

I've always used a RTP and decided to go with a rear boot. Tried two different kinds... hated em both. Now I'm back to the plate and loving it. Very interested in the knee injury report as I have already had three surgeries on my left (front) knee. The twisting knee injury comment definitely got my attention. Sounds painful and likely if my rear foot comes out at the wrong time.

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#18 Wed, Jul 14, 2010 12:17 PM

Gofastr
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

I upgraded from a 17 year old Kidder with double high wraps to an HO with double Animals in 2004.  Never a problem with the old setup.

Skiied the Aimals with the laces completely loose for 1/2 a season, then decided to snug them up a little... bad idea.  Went over the front on 4 ball, ski came off, but not before something bad happened to my front ankle.  Went to the ortho, and before even touching my ankle, he asked exactly what had happened.  When I told him, he said he had treated a very competitive skier a few years earlier that fell the same way in bindings that sounded like the Animals, and told me he thought I'd probably had the same injury: broken talus bone (in the foot) and ruptured the ligament that holds the tibia and fibula together near the ankle.  Diagnosis proved right on.

1 year, four screws and a plate later, I was able to ski again.  I like the bindings, but caution anyone who has them about lacing'em up.  A friend at our lake didn't listen well, took the same out the front fall on laced up Animals, didn't come out and ruptured his Achilles.

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#19 Wed, Jul 14, 2010 12:38 PM

HO410
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

One of the better ways to use Animals, that I have run into, is to set the cinch the lace and never touch it again. If you can get into the boot without hurting yourself, it will usually go the same way in the other direction. But as we all know, no matter how long you've been at this, stuff happens.

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#20 Wed, Jul 14, 2010 1:45 PM

SC_swerve
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Re: Double High Wrap Skiing...Is anyone getting injuries?

I was previously on Animals and used elastic shoe laces. You can purchase them on ebay for about $5/pair. They worked great.

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