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#1 Sat, May 22, 2010 5:08 PM

ScotChipman
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From: Utah
Registered: Wed, May 16, 2007
Posts: 262
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New GOODE Bubble Buoy


Scot Chipman

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#2 Sat, May 22, 2010 6:45 PM

h20dawg79
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Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

Very Cool Scot! There is such a need, I hope this goes over well...smile


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#3 Sat, May 22, 2010 8:38 PM

Thomas Wayne
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Posts: 228

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

h20dawg79 wrote:

Very Cool Scot! There is such a need, I hope this goes over well...smile

No one hopes this goes over better than I do, since it's directly covered by a design that we've had patent pending since well before Dave Goode decided to "solve" the safety-buoy problem.  In fact, I've been working on this problem for many years prior to
Dave Goode breaking his ankle.

One of Goode's "representatives" approached me last year about our work in this area and I offered to openly share everything we had claimed in our patent, without any obligation whatsoever on Goode's part to use any of our ideas.  My reason for making such an offer was simly to avoid a situation where Goode would infringe on intellectual property that we had already officially claimed.

Dave Goode decided he had no interest in seeing what we had already filed, presumably believing that his brilliant mind would produce something unique that no one else could ever conceive.  He's mistaken about that, and I sincerely hope he sells millions of them so we can ultimately reap those profits.

TW

Last edited by Thomas Wayne (Sat, May 22, 2010 8:39 PM)

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#4 Sun, May 23, 2010 9:54 AM

EdJohnson
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Registered: Fri, May 8, 2009
Posts: 56

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

TW,
While the Bubble Buoy or "Jellyfish" looks like a real possibility I just want to say THANKYOU VERY MUCH for all the work you did relating to the Waterfilled Buoys. In the last two years the skiers on our lake have hit them numerous times and kept on skiing. We settled on slightly more than half filled with the buoy sitting just slightly below the equator. It has given all of us more confidence in our skiing by removing the fear factor in the back of your mind about nailing a Buoy. I have talked others into switching at their lakes also.

There is no telling how many ankles have been saved do to you shedding light on this subject and your in-depth articles and illustrations.

Once again, THANKYOU.............ED

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#5 Sun, May 23, 2010 10:49 AM

h20dawg79
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Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

T.W.

That's Very Cool 4U, hopefully they'll go international! (maybe you can show him your pricing guide lines too. So, we all can afford them!!!)wink


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#6 Mon, May 24, 2010 5:50 AM

Skiboy
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From: Bobcaygeon Ontario Canada
Registered: Fri, Mar 7, 2008
Posts: 143
Skis At: Pigeon Lake @ Ski Tek
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Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

Where can we get those things and how much?


Skiing Finatic Once Again

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#7 Mon, May 24, 2010 9:40 AM

ScotChipman
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From: Utah
Registered: Wed, May 16, 2007
Posts: 262
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Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

Thomas Wayne,  If you have a patent pending claim (what is the patent #?) on a buoy like the Bubble Buoy why didn't you bring it to market? Would it be because of the high costs to bring it to market and the limited sales potential? If you were in fact sitting on intellectual property that could have saved hundreds of injures would you not be liable in some way? Why would you threaten Dave Goode with a lawsuit for taking the time and high costs in bringing a new safer buoy to market that will benefit us all. It is possible that Dave Goode may never see a return on his money for this new buoy and even if he does why should he not benefit after putting up the time and effort to develop it? Is your plan now to sit and wait to see if in fact Dave Goode does turn a profit down the road then file a lawsuit and take profit after taking no initial risk in development costs? You admit that you and Dave Goode never talked so what he came up with had nothing to do with your idea. There is no reason to say "presumably believing that his brilliant mind would produce something unique that no one else could ever conceive" except to put down Dave Goode which you and a few others just love to do.

Skiboy, Not sure when they will be available or how much. You can keep checking www.goode.com or call/e-mail them.

Last edited by ScotChipman (Mon, May 24, 2010 9:51 AM)


Scot Chipman

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#8 Mon, May 24, 2010 9:21 PM

Thomas Wayne
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Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sun, Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 228

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

ScotChipman wrote:

Thomas Wayne,  If you have a patent pending claim (what is the patent #?) on a buoy like the Bubble Buoy why didn't you bring it to market? Would it be because of the high costs to bring it to market and the limited sales potential? If you were in fact sitting on intellectual property that could have saved hundreds of injures would you not be liable in some way? Why would you threaten Dave Goode with a lawsuit for taking the time and high costs in bringing a new safer buoy to market that will benefit us all. It is possible that Dave Goode may never see a return on his money for this new buoy and even if he does why should he not benefit after putting up the time and effort to develop it? Is your plan now to sit and wait to see if in fact Dave Goode does turn a profit down the road then file a lawsuit and take profit after taking no initial risk in development costs? You admit that you and Dave Goode never talked so what he came up with had nothing to do with your idea. There is no reason to say "presumably believing that his brilliant mind would produce something unique that no one else could ever conceive" except to put down Dave Goode which you and a few others just love to do.

Skiboy, Not sure when they will be available or how much. You can keep checking www.goode.com or call/e-mail them.

Scot,

1)  Patent FAQ 101: a "patent#" doesn't even exist until a patent is granted... duh.

2)  I have a number of good ideas and gadgets in various stages of the patent process; no one, under any circumstances whatsoever, is under any obligation to reveal confidential information about an invention.  There's no liability AT ALL attached to not releasing a device before one wants to... duh.

3)  "Lawsuit" is a term YOU brought into this discussion, not me.  I haven't written a single thing about any "lawsuit"... duh.

4)  Yes, our plan is to now "sit and wait" - advice any competent IP attorney would give a client in our situation... duh.

5)  Where, in anything I wrote above, did you see me "admit" that Dave Goode and I have never spoken?  You should try reading posts [that you oppose] a little more carefully before flying off the handle, Scot... duh.

TW

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#9 Tue, May 25, 2010 7:31 AM

ScotChipman
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From: Utah
Registered: Wed, May 16, 2007
Posts: 262
Foot Forward: Right
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Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

TW,

I admit I do not know patent FAQ 101 being a meteorologist which is why I asked you since you have knowledge in this area. Why put me down with you "duh" comment? I'm not attacking you, just asking honest questions. What about a patent pending file number?

You said "typically, patent infringement awards are "triple damages" (plus legal expenses). The beauty of our current situation is that we can wait many years to pursue such a suit. If Goode's design is wildly successful it will make legal action well worth it; if not, then who cares." over on www.thewaterskiforum.com/forum.html. Sure sounds like lawsuit to me. I agree that a good attorney would have you sit and wait now to see if it would be worth your time to seek legal action down the road but that does not make it right in my opinion.

When I said you and Dave Goode never talked I was referring to the subject of the Bubble Buoy when you said "Dave Goode decided he had no interest in seeing what we had already filed."

Last edited by ScotChipman (Tue, May 25, 2010 7:44 AM)


Scot Chipman

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#10 Tue, May 25, 2010 9:21 AM

Thomas Wayne
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Posts: 228

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

Scot,

Our Patent Application Number is kept confidential by law, and is absolutely none of your business.  In fact no public record is made regarding any aspect of a patent claim(s) until 18 months after the final patent and accompanying claims are filed - at a minimum.  In some cases it can be years before any such information is made available to the public.  I didn't make these rules, but I am certainly bound by them AND entitled to make full use of them.

What's "right in [your] opinion" has zero meaning to me, since you make it pretty clear that your "opinion" is everyone should get on their knees and worship Dave Goode.  Under the intellectual properties laws that rule in our country, whoever first conceives an inveniton and files a record of that invention with the US government has the exclusive right to profit from that invention for up to 20 years.  I'm quite sure if Dave Goode ever bothered to patent anything you'd be the FIRST to jump up and defend HIS intellectual property rights.

Ultimately, Scot, it's not your job (or place) to fight Dave Goode's fights for him; he's a big boy and he can take care of himself.  Not everyone shares your high opinion of him, and that's something you might as well get used to because it's unlikely to change in the near future.

TW

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#11 Tue, May 25, 2010 10:59 AM

kstateskier
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Slasher
From: Southwest Missouri
Registered: Mon, May 5, 2008
Posts: 76

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

Thomas

You should really step back from the ledge man... 

Look I'm not a Dave Goode fan...  I think his skis are over priced, I don't like that they don't put inserts in them and I've heard way too many stories of Goode NOT standing behind his warranty on a broken ski.  I don't like that they won't put inserts in skis even if you ask them to and offer to pay for them.  I don't like that you have to beat on a $1500 water ski with a mallet to get your bindings stuck to them...  But you're posting in such a manner that you act like Dave Goode himself broke into your office in the middle of the night with a spy camera and photographed your Safe Buoy design and then went out and built his own claiming he came with the whole thing???  Why do you have to act this way?   Near as I can tell.  You spoke with someone from Goode, you guys didn't "exchange" ideas (you stated above "Dave Goode decided he had no interest in seeing what we had already filed". So Goode went and developed their own ideas.  If you never told them anything and they developed their own idea and it happens to be similar to yours - this is not a world crisis...  Sure if you filed the patent and are awarded it then I'm sure by law you're entitled to something, but that doesn't give you a permission slip to be such a d*ck the second someone releases and idea that's intended to make skiing safer!  I have no doubt Goode is looking to make a buck, but making skiing safer isn't an all too bad of a thing either!

The only reason I bring this up is because you were such an a$$ when you released the arm guard on almost every ski forum on the internet that I halfway considered not even buying one because of the way you were treating people.  Now ultimately I think the Arm Guard is a great design and would make me safer while skiing so I overlooked your behavior.  But in all seriousness as a representative of the things you invent/ your intellectual property and decide to market/sell you should really reconsider your behavior and how you represent yourself on these ski forums. 

Am I saying you're completely wrong? NO. Am I saying Dave Goode is completely right? Absolutely NOT! I'm just saying there's no need to put your boxing gloves on every time someone asks a question!

Bradley Beach

Last edited by kstateskier (Tue, May 25, 2010 11:38 AM)


KstateSkier
"The only thing standing between you and your goals is you"

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#12 Tue, May 25, 2010 5:33 PM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

Hey ya'll, Let us never forget that we are all a very small Family of water skiing enthusiasts. Maybe a bit Dis functional at times But, Damn the struggle and strife of these dog gone Ski forums is getting ridiculous...

Can't we agree to disagree Respectfully?

Can't everyone be entitled to His or Her own opinion?

Can't we all practice saying: Good job, Great idea, I agree with Bob, ( these are little complements...)

Come on, the World owes us Nothing! There's a Big ol' World out there that would LOVE, LOVE LOVE to cheat you, kick your a$$, shoot you, stab you, Rape you and your mother and then spit on your grave...

We, (Skiers) (Friends) (brothers)and fellow water dawgs can do Better then this! -Don't we at least owe each other that much?


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#13 Wed, May 26, 2010 7:30 AM

WadeWilliams
Karma:   15 
Pro Skier
From: Lynn, MA
Registered: Tue, May 15, 2007
Posts: 1087
Skis At: Not short enough
Foot Forward: Right
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Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

Let's try to limit ourselves to constructive objective discussion on this thread from here on out. Thanks. I'm excited to ski with the bubble buoys, although I fear they will be overpriced and prone to breaking...

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#14 Wed, May 26, 2010 8:11 AM

Garn
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Slalom Mentor
From: Alpine, Utah
Registered: Thu, May 17, 2007
Posts: 139
Skis At: Utah Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

Ok Wade, I won't say what I was going to say.  But TW, from now on we should just call you "DUH".  It's very appropriate.

Garn

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#15 Wed, May 26, 2010 8:29 AM

HO410
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Registered: Sat, Sep 29, 2007
Posts: 345
Skis At: Outlaw Lake
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Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

It looks like it should be able to use some kind of refill kit. The sub-buoy should be pretty long-lived. The rigid collar should also be pretty durable. That soft dome is probably pretty delicate, but I would hope you can replace just the bubble and would not be force to replace the whole buoy.

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#16 Wed, May 26, 2010 10:14 AM

Killer
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From: Toronto, ON
Registered: Sun, Apr 5, 2009
Posts: 137
Skis At: Ontario
Foot Forward: Left

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

started using the waterfilled buoys last year on our Ez-slalom course

I know some that use permanent courses with sub buoys can underinflate them and just shorten the rope, reducing the amount of buoy above the surface,  but with a portable the buoys have very little resistence from below the water.

can't see how these bubble buoys would work with a portable course, correct me if I'm wrong.  also not spending more than the $5 per ball I already do on a public course.  the polyform buoys have held up very well FWIW

I've run the water filled guys over with my ski and not had a problem, might trigger a fall, but I don't catch my ankles on them any more and am not scared of running a little closer to the ball.



just another dumb canuck

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#17 Wed, May 26, 2010 1:54 PM

david38off
Karma:   -1 
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From: Hillsboro, TN
Registered: Tue, Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 53
Skis At: 34 mph
Foot Forward: left
Website

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

Who is this guy Thomas Wayne and where does he get off attacking Dave Goode?  As far as I know Goode waterskis has contributed significantly to the sport of waterskiing, and Thomas Wayne ???  Never heard of him??  Even if he has a patent pending , good luck with your lawsuit.  LOL.  Just ask the dude that invented intermittent wipers.  Sued Ford for billions ...won a few million... after he was dead.  So not likely to get far with your lawsuit TW.

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#18 Wed, May 26, 2010 2:46 PM

HO410
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Skis At: Outlaw Lake
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Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

There has been quite a large blowup on several forum from TW stating that the Goode buoy appears to share features with a patent that he has already filed. It's not nearly as inflammatory as it is being made to be. 


We never did track down and flame the tar out of the guy that sued for royalties on the fin clamp patents that several manufactures utilized. We should get around to that.

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#19 Wed, May 26, 2010 3:59 PM

jbski
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Regular
Registered: Fri, May 8, 2009
Posts: 34

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

David38off - so, then, you're new to waterski discussion boards? Welcome.

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#20 Wed, May 26, 2010 4:16 PM

Thomas Wayne
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Registered: Sun, Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 228

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

HO410 wrote:

[...]
We never did track down and flame the tar out of the guy that sued for royalties on the fin clamp patents that several manufactures utilized. We should get around to that.

Paul Insensee is the name you're thinking of.  He forced an out-of-court settlement with some of the guys infringing on his fin block patent; I've spoken with Paul and he says he's completely satisfied with the settlement money.

And, to correct the slew of misinformation "david38off" just vomited into this thread, the man who invented the intermittent windshield wiper was named Bob Kearns, and he did not sue for "billions", but rather for millions.  He won that infringement suit against Ford, and they settled for slightly more than $10 million.

In his second suit, against Chrysler, he won $18.7 million (plus interest) in a successful trial.  Chrysler appealed all the way to the Supreme Court, who declined to review the case.  Ultimately, Chrysler paid Kearns approximately $30 million.

Finally, Bob Kearns lived more than a decade after Chrysler was forced to pay him the ~ $30 million in 1995;  Ford had already paid the $10 million settlement in 1991.

I followed Kearns' case(s) in the 90's and have a great deal of respect for how he stuck to his guns - as do most of my fellow inventors.

TW

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#21 Wed, May 26, 2010 6:48 PM

Shark
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From: the shores of Sproat Lake
Registered: Wed, Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 78
Website

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

As soon as an idea/concept or device is made known to people it becomes prior art. Prior art invalidates any patents of like devices awarded subsequently. For example if for say a handle guard were invented way back in 2004, then that clearly is prior art. It is up to the person applying for a patent to ask those who produced the prior art for additional information. If it is found that due diligence was not undertaken by the party applying for the patent with regard to prior art, the patent is tossed out, plain and simple. The person applying for the patent would be wasting their time and money if a proper search for prior art was not thoroughly completed. If such a person then acts in a way that is harmful to a business, such as Goode in this case, and that material is published as it is in a message board, then that person is committing libel.


Two photos of prior art...2004/2005 baby!
http://twitpic.com/1reayj

http://twitpic.com/1reauw

Last edited by Shark (Wed, May 26, 2010 6:51 PM)

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#22 Wed, May 26, 2010 10:41 PM

Thomas Wayne
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Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sun, Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 228

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

Sorry Paul, your dishonest attempts to alter history with revisionist claims won't succeed.

Our original ARM-GUARD design, which is fully documented dating to 2003, contained all the minimalist aspects your first published photo (from later 2004) displayed.  In fact, we've got dated archival copies of your website on which you published that same first photo (slightly altered) several days after we released the Generation-2 ARM-GUARD.  The current inferior knock-off you now sell didn't appear until almost six weeks after the ARM-GUARD debuted.  Most importantly, we filed our patent application(s) long before our initial release.

We've provided the USPTO all the documentation we need to prove our patent application claims, and I sincerely hope we get to see you in a US courtroom (since we also can prove you've distributed your knock-off within the US).  It will be very interesting to see if you have the guts to perjure yourself under oath, especially in light of the mountain of evidence we've assembled.

I recommend you start saving up now.

TW

Last edited by Thomas Wayne (Wed, May 26, 2010 10:43 PM)

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#23 Thu, May 27, 2010 6:07 AM

Killer
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Slalom Mentor
From: Toronto, ON
Registered: Sun, Apr 5, 2009
Posts: 137
Skis At: Ontario
Foot Forward: Left

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

TW may I suggest a carear in wordsmithing, there may be others in AK that can benefit more greatly from those skills you have, than from your very cool, yet revenue negative waterski inventions.

6 years to fight a plastic handle guard patent that most people don't see as the final answer to handle safety?

honestly and truly good luck to you all!  I hope we skiers can get something out of you that benefits us well into the future..

how about a ski off somewhere along the klondike?

Last edited by Killer (Thu, May 27, 2010 6:08 AM)

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#24 Thu, May 27, 2010 7:14 AM

david38off
Karma:   -1 
Slasher
From: Hillsboro, TN
Registered: Tue, Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 53
Skis At: 34 mph
Foot Forward: left
Website

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

TW is right ..I was just guessing on the amt of the original suit  "billions" was just to dramatize how large the amount of the suit was.  And there is a difference between winning a lawsuit and actually getting paid any money.  I too have wikipedia and your response was pretty much taken right out of it.  I may have been mistaken about him receiving money prior to his death but had watched a documentary on it some time ago, and thought they had said he hadnt recieved money prior to his death. I should have known to get ALL the facts before posting to you.  In any event the money he did apparently recieve was a miserable fraction of what it is actually worth.  And he got it like what?? 30 yrs after the fact when he was 80?? (just guessing on the age so dont call me out on that too).  How much do you think Goode will make on the bouy?  I also see a major difference in your case and his....he apparently DID share his research with Ford / Chrysler and you apparently DID NOT share your info with GOode other than maybe a General idea of it.  I will in the future make sure to get my facts straight with you though since you apparently know everything there is to know about everything.  (Wikipedia).   It was really just to make a point as to how ridiculous your attack on Dave Goode was.  I think if I were Dave Goode I might consider suing you for slander!  I wasnt really familiar with you before, but after reading many of your posts and talking to others in the waterski community I find you to be a cancerous growth on the sport of waterskiing.  And like all cancerous growths I feel you need to be removed.  I would recommend that Wade consider terminating your privileges to post so that we can get back to constructive discussions about WATERSKIING.  I know TW will respond with some witty comeback , but I will not respond so you will be wasting post space.  I have said all I wish to say.   Thank you

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#25 Thu, May 27, 2010 8:11 AM

2gofaster
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Slalom Mentor
From: Cypress, Tx
Registered: Sun, Jun 1, 2008
Posts: 337

Re: New GOODE Bubble Buoy

Well, I don't agree that TW should be banned from posting. Regardless of his demeanor or attitude, anyone concerned with the safety of others as he has shown to be is NOT a cancerous growth on the sport. Personally, I don't like TW's manner in which he responds to people and wish he'd keep a lot of it to himself. But that doesn't negate his desire to help ensure we're safe.


Shane Hill

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