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Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming? / Pro Ski Coach Water Ski Forum
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#1 Tue, May 25, 2010 11:43 AM

kstateskier
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From: Southwest Missouri
Registered: Mon, May 5, 2008
Posts: 76

Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

no one is hiding Thomas...

BTW several of the zip ties on my arm guard have broken... Can I replace them with your standard run of the mill black little zip ties or have you reinvented the zip tie in such a way I should be aware of?  big_smile

Bradley Beach

Last edited by kstateskier (Tue, May 25, 2010 11:43 AM)


KstateSkier
"The only thing standing between you and your goals is you"

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#2 Tue, May 25, 2010 11:59 AM

Thomas Wayne
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

We recommend you replace them with the same type: Thomas & Betts Ty-Rap model TY524M, available country-wide.

And, since you asked, the new Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD uses the same Ty-Rap - but in a manner that is pretty unique, and that I have not seen before.  So, in fact, I HAVE reinvented how the zip-tie is used.  Does that count?

TW

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#3 Tue, May 25, 2010 3:25 PM

Deke
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From: Telluride, CO
Registered: Thu, Apr 3, 2008
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Skis At: 15/34
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

Thomas Wayne,
I am interested in your new Arm-Guard design.  Have you started selling it yet?

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#4 Tue, May 25, 2010 5:31 PM

Thomas Wayne
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

Yes.

TW

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#5 Tue, May 25, 2010 6:56 PM

igkya
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Registered: Wed, May 16, 2007
Posts: 6
Skis At: Yough Lake
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

TWH,

Can you post some pics of the new version of the arm-guard?  What improvements were made?

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#6 Wed, May 26, 2010 10:18 AM

Thomas Wayne
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

igkya wrote:

TW,

Can you post some pics of the new version of the arm-guard?  What improvements were made?

The Gen-3.5 ARM-GUARD has two major changes to the initial release: 1) the safety panel is articulated so that it can easily fold for handle changes on ropes with small end-loops, and 2) a new, unique manner of utilizing the Ty-Raps allows the panel to be centered between the bridle ropes.  Other improvements, too minor to mention, have also been made to the design.

All these improvements/modifications are addressed in the original patent filings, but - as always - it takes time to bring a completed vision to market.  Over the next year or so we hope to make further changes to the product.  Meanwhile we feel comfortable that we've protected a lot of skiers along the way...

TW
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n293/ThomasWayne_2006/Generation3-5.jpg

Last edited by Thomas Wayne (Wed, May 26, 2010 4:20 PM)

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#7 Wed, May 26, 2010 10:29 AM

HO410
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Registered: Sat, Sep 29, 2007
Posts: 345
Skis At: Outlaw Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

Between 13" handles, ARS end-caps, and the super stiff US-Gear handles, I'm having trouble understanding why Accurate, Masterline, and Straightline don't tie their tournament ropes with over sized loops at the handle end. All the more reason to make your own or give In-tow your business.

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#8 Wed, May 26, 2010 10:56 AM

alski
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Posts: 44
Skis At: Twin Lakes
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

I have TW's Arm-Guard Version 3.5.  The dual panel has made changing out the handle very easy. Interesting and effective way to use the zip-ties and keep the panel centered.  Took 1 set to get used to it, now I forget its even there.  Highly recommend it.

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#9 Thu, May 27, 2010 8:56 AM

EdJohnson
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

Another option is the Bridle SOC from US Gear. Bought one at Nationals last year and would not ski without it. I like the fact that there is nothing in the middle of the handle. In the heat of the battle I may grab the middle and do not want anything to interfere with that. Since it is fabric, it folds easily for handle removal.

Regards,  ED

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#10 Thu, May 27, 2010 9:01 AM

EdJohnson
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

Another option is the Bridle SOC from US Gear. Bought one at Nationals last year and would not ski without it. I like the fact that there is nothing in the middle of the handle. In the heat of the battle I may grab the middle and do not want anything to interfere with that. Since it is fabric, it folds easily for handle removal.
Whatever you do, please use one of these systems.
Regards,  ED

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#11 Thu, May 27, 2010 9:23 AM

Killer
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Skis At: Ontario
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

by reducing the area inside the handle is it plausible to consider an arm through the handle accident could become more catastrophic?   in other words would it become harder for one to remove their arm now that the opening is so much smaller?

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#12 Thu, May 27, 2010 9:38 AM

HO410
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

TW. Now that you are mounting the panel between the bridle ropes, what is the margin for error in measuring handles? When I measured my dad's ARS handle, I guess I did not get it under enough tension. Under skiing load, the geometry is different enough that the Arm-Guard panel has a 1/2" to 1" bow. It seems like that might be a problem if it were mounted between the ropes.

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#13 Thu, May 27, 2010 9:49 AM

alski
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

Killer wrote:

by reducing the area inside the handle is it plausible to consider an arm through the handle accident could become more catastrophic?   in other words would it become harder for one to remove their arm now that the opening is so much smaller?

The way my Arm Guard fits, I can't get my hand through the handle beyond my wrist.  The wrist straps on my Motogloves get in the way.  Depending on how it fits in your handle and what kind of gloves you use, you may have a different experience.

Also, I have not noticed any bowing in the panel when under tension.

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#14 Thu, May 27, 2010 9:51 AM

HO410
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

I've got an Arm-Guard on my handle. I have about a 2" gap between the edge of the bar and the edge of the panel. With gloves on I would need to have what I feel would be the equivalent of a bulls-eye through a bulls-eye to get my hand through there. Most interaction with the panel should come in the form of a glancing blow and deflection. But I get it, the odds don't mean much if you have the 1 fall where one would actually be a detriment.





When I first got my Arm-Guard, several skiers were worried about just that scenario. What if your hand gets in there? To a man (thus far no women have taken the time to examine my handle) the hand scenario worriers have asked for information about mine and other options because they have had falls where an Arm-Guard would have deflected the handle ways from their hand or head.

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#15 Thu, May 27, 2010 10:28 AM

HO410
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

AL: My personal handle is a 12" Masterline. By the time I ordered the panel the ropes were already stretched. The panel I have for it fits beautifully. My dad's handle had recently been restrung and, in addition to the ARS end caps, had some extra thick tubing on the bridle. I either botched the measurement or the bridle settled in some after I had measured. Neither of us ever really noticed until a few months ago. I'm just curious what kind of effect a discrepancy like that would have on the fit of the 3.5 revision.

Last edited by HO410 (Thu, May 27, 2010 10:30 AM)

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#16 Thu, May 27, 2010 10:38 AM

Thomas Wayne
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

HO410 -

Check your message folder, I've just sent you a PM.

TW

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#17 Thu, May 27, 2010 10:54 AM

Thomas Wayne
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Re: Generation-3.5 ARM-GUARD When is it coming?

EdJohnson wrote:

Another option is the Bridle SOC from US Gear. Bought one at Nationals last year and would not ski without it. I like the fact that there is nothing in the middle of the handle. In the heat of the battle I may grab the middle and do not want anything to interfere with that. Since it is fabric, it folds easily for handle removal.
Whatever you do, please use one of these systems.
Regards,  ED

That is exactly what we consider the potential problem with fabric panels - the fact that they fold so easily.  Your head won't get through, but in a scenario where your hand hits the bridle opening - now covered with fabric - the folding nature of the fabric tends to form a natural "funnel", actually guiding your hand/arm into the danger zone.

This is not merely conjecture on our part; we conducted experiments with many different materials before choosing the semi-rigid Lexan™ panel we use in our ARM-GUARD™.  Some skiers remove our elastic center member - which we don't recommend - but even without this member the non-folding nature of the Lexan™ is still far safer than any fabric (or soft plastic) panel.

By the way, the US GEAR design is not new - it's actually taken directly from the Scott Rabineau design of a few decades ago.  Scott's version was made with a sort of marine canvas, but otherwise the "Bridle Soc" is virtually identical to his original design.  Again, in our opinion, fabric that folds easily (of any kind) is an incorrect choice for this application.

That said, I agree that anything is probably better than no guard at all.

TW

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