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#1 Mon, Apr 19, 2010 2:18 PM

GSM-Peter
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First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Greetings all slalom skiers!

Last year I took a slalom lesson for the first time in my life.
This year I have enter the club! It was so much more fun than just do some free skiing.

I did ride my big daddy Connelly Fat ski from approx 1997 and I managed 6 buoyancies in the junior, more 'narrow track' (yes I am a bit proud)!
Never the less I think I need a more suitable ski and do not know what I should be looking for.

Background:
I ski free water skiing a few times a summer in cold water (Sweden!).
I can start with both feets in the binding in deep water using my big ski.
Reasonable well trained, approx. 165 pounds.
neutralI have a Conversion error ERROR here. 78 Kg is equal to 172 lbs)neutral
I plan to ski +10 times per season in the club

I can not test before I buy (not in Sweden that I know of).
I would prefer to buy in USA and let a friend bring them home.
It seems like there is a great number of deals on the internet
(your prices is half of the ones at home and our custom and taxes is great - for the government).

Please advice:
Propose a ski that suites my level (now and a few years ahead)
What binding types should I look for?
Do I need gloves? why?
The ski is important. Blemish, old models, no fancy brands is ok.
Lets assume my budget is 400 to 500 USD

Best Regards from Stockholm

Peter

Last edited by GSM-Peter (Tue, Apr 20, 2010 11:41 PM)


Life is too short not to enjoy every day. Living well is the best revenge!

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#2 Mon, Apr 19, 2010 2:44 PM

HO410
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

One of the wide rides like the HO Triumph or the Radar Theory would be pretty good.
A simple overlay boot like an HO Animal or a Wiley's with a toe loop should do well.

Yeah, you need gloves. I know they can be pretty expensive, but that soft
rubber handle is not all that forgiving on soaked skin. If you like having
palms, then you need to get some gloves.

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#3 Mon, Apr 19, 2010 10:57 PM

ColinCanski
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

GSM-Peter - sent you an email.


Ski to Live - Live to Ski

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#4 Tue, Apr 20, 2010 5:03 AM

h20dawg79
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

I agree with HO410 on the Radar Theory or the Triumph. Both are great for this. Unless your already skiing @ 32 mph and want to progress to 34-36. The Theory will top out around 32mph. But, for learning the course and Grooving your tech. skills even down to 28mph the Theory will be your Best freind!smile

I would also recommend the RS-1 bindings. You could keep these and move them to your next higher level ski. But, if budget restraints wont allow RS-1's The Radar Rails would be Much, Much more comfortable the any other rubber or Low end boot out there.

Last edited by h20dawg79 (Wed, Apr 21, 2010 4:10 AM)


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#5 Tue, Apr 20, 2010 8:25 PM

Shark
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

We've sold quite a few systems recently to Norway and Sweden.  You are going to need a boot system that supports you well, you can close snugly and releases safely and reliably every time in the cooler climate (especially for a novice). We do have a few ski and boot packages a bit above that price range depending on your size. For example a 65.5 D3 Custom 4, 66" Obrien Sixam.  I think you should get an amply sized competition ski and learn to ride it. The Triumphs are good but they can be a bit too wide in the course .

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#6 Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:53 AM

Galejan
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Hej Peter! Skulle rekomendera HO triumph, den har hjälpt mej från 43km till där jag är nu, 55/16.....or in english: i would recomend the Triumph,it helped me from 43kph to were i am now 55 kph/16m, great ski....

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#7 Wed, Apr 21, 2010 12:27 PM

GSM-Peter
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Hi
Thanks for all advices!
It is also nice with another Swede out here.
It seems like the HO Triumph is on the larger side but also highly recommended.
Given that I do not think I will have the time to ski that much I think that this is a nice choice to have a ski that rides well in lower speed and also is easy to start in deep water (I am also 52 this summer…). 
What length should I look for? 68/69?

I have been recommended to purchase high end bindings. Nobody recommends a simple RTP or??
Will different brands fit different skis (will for example a RS-1 fit a HO ski)?
RS1 describe that there is no front or rear foot. Both will fit in eiher place. A package includes both bindings.
Why is there a choice to purchace LEft or Right then?!?

Shall I look for a binding that I can use with a sock?
I assume they will be too large without socks later in season.

Does anybody have any recommendation on gloves?

Cheers

Peter

Last edited by GSM-Peter (Wed, Apr 21, 2010 1:01 PM)


Life is too short not to enjoy every day. Living well is the best revenge!

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#8 Wed, Apr 21, 2010 1:08 PM

HO410
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Toe plate: It's something that you will have to experiment with, so I would suggest you start with what you know. If it is a toe plate than go with a toe plate. Currently, every manufacturer shares a universal insert pattern for the front boot. So whatever strikes you as the right boot for you will almost certainly fit. I believe the name of the Rail has been changed to Vector.

You are being recommended high end bindings because they really do make a difference. Boots are pretty personal. You need to be comfortable and confident in your boots. It is possible that after weighing the features, you might miss on your choice. I can support the recommendation of the RS-1/Strada boot, even though it is a quote "high end binding" I feel that it is still very balanced and doesn't punish mistakes.

Socks? Is this about skiing in cold water? If you choose a boot like the RS-1/Strada or the Obrien Prodigy you would be able to get in and then spray some warm water into the boot. You won't stay super warm for long, but you'll prime the pump and they'll act like kind of like a wetsuit.


There are a lot of choices out there. Personally, I love wading through it all. Have fun.

Last edited by HO410 (Wed, Apr 21, 2010 1:09 PM)

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#9 Wed, Apr 21, 2010 5:09 PM

h20dawg79
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Ya the Vectors are the redesigned Rail. I didn't even know that! smile They look very nice... (no more Moon boots!)

There is no Lt. or Rt. with the Vectors or Rails. The Strada's or RS-1's have a Lt. and/or Rt. with or w/o the toe strap with either. The Vectors are an open toe boot. But, the Strada/RS-1's are a closed boot system with heat moldable "sock" Liners and are fairly warm in chilly wata! they're also unbelievably comfortable.

Gloves are totally a very personal choice. especially the FIT and sizing! Try to find some Local, if possible. Stay away from the Lower priced versions. They wont Last and sometimes, you will get Blisters because of them...

Ski size: 67" for either the Theory or the Triumph.

Last edited by h20dawg79 (Wed, Apr 21, 2010 5:31 PM)


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#10 Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:27 PM

Galejan
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Peter
Go to Ski Marine(Huddinge) to try diffrent gloves and take a look at diffrent binding options, they dont have all brands, but you can see (and feel)the diffrense between rubber and hardshell.
If you have bindings with liners you dont need a sock, you dont change water in the liner when you ski(closed toe).

We start with our first competion this saturday(Freja Cup), first in sweden, and we end the season with the last(Ymer cup) the first weekend in november, so theres a lot skiing in cold water.   (Nyköpings vattenskid klubb)....

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#11 Fri, Apr 23, 2010 9:24 AM

GSM-Peter
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Hi all

Thanks for all advices. It is useful and lead me in the right direction.

I have had contact with a US dealer (that had been develop skis for manufactures).
He strongly recommend a 65" on HO Triumph and 67" on the Radar Theory.
He also propose a Reflex 64.5 Flow because it should be a very easy riding ski (floats high and turns extremely quick.

I have also an offer for a second hand 2005 D3 X Custom 66" with Driver front binding and RTP.

Any more comments?
I am afraid of a too small ski but as long as the ski is easy to ride with sufficient area it should be ok or???

Greateful for a quick responce!

/Peter


Life is too short not to enjoy every day. Living well is the best revenge!

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#12 Fri, Apr 23, 2010 10:41 AM

barefutn
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

FYI - The radarskistore (Radar Skis website) has a 67" 2008 Theory in the outlet store for $159.99.

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#13 Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:57 PM

HO410
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Sizing the ski is going to depend on what speed you plan to ski the most. If you are going to spend the majority of your time below 30 mph, maybe even as slow as 28 mph, then you will want the 67" Triumph or Theory. The D3 would be small unless you are skiing 34 (55K) or 36 (58k), and there really wasn't enough support for the Driver to be produced for more than a year.

I'm sure the Reflex would be fantastic, but the ski itself is priced more than double your budget.


If you can get that Theory barefutn mentioned http://www.radarskistore.com/products/c … 086.0.0.0, that sounds like a very good deal to me.

Last edited by HO410 (Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:58 PM)

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#14 Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:57 PM

Galejan
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

I am 178cm and 80kg and have a 67" Triumph, and as i said, this had worked for me from 43km/h to 55km/h,and still its not the ski that holds me back, its me!!

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#15 Fri, Apr 23, 2010 7:19 PM

ChrisRossi
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

I would suggest a 67 Radar Senate with Radar Vector boots.  This ski is just slightly wider than a high end competition ski yet forgiving enough to be used at slower speeds.  The Vector boots are amazing.  For gloves, I would start with the Radar Ergo gloves.  You should try on gloves before buying if possible. 

Chris

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#16 Sun, Apr 25, 2010 12:14 PM

GSM-Peter
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

HO410 wrote:

Toe plate: It's something that you will have to experiment with, so I would suggest you start with what you know. If it is a toe plate than go with a toe plate. Currently, every manufacturer shares a universal insert pattern for the front boot. So whatever strikes you as the right boot for you will almost certainly fit. I believe the name of the Rail has been changed to Vector.

You are being recommended high end bindings because they really do make a difference. Boots are pretty personal. You need to be comfortable and confident in your boots. It is possible that after weighing the features, you might miss on your choice. I can support the recommendation of the RS-1/Strada boot, even though it is a quote "high end binding" I feel that it is still very balanced and doesn't punish mistakes.

Socks? Is this about skiing in cold water? If you choose a boot like the RS-1/Strada or the Obrien Prodigy you would be able to get in and then spray some warm water into the boot. You won't stay super warm for long, but you'll prime the pump and they'll act like kind of like a wetsuit.


There are a lot of choices out there. Personally, I love wading through it all. Have fun.

Hi
I have an offer for a pair of second hand RS-1 bindings with the plate.
Question, I have a bit wide feet’s and must always adjust my snow slalom boots in the front (the inner liner is not sufficient).
Can (a water ski store) widen the hard shell boots a bit if necessary?

The Radarskistore.com has great deals but does unfortunately not ship outside of USA.   sad

Brgds
Peter


Life is too short not to enjoy every day. Living well is the best revenge!

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#17 Sun, Apr 25, 2010 12:31 PM

h20dawg79
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From: nashville,tn.
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Why not call Radar direct and talk to Eddie or Sully or??? and see if they know the Max. width sizing on their binding for your foot or shoe size? I can't imagine stretching the plastic like a leather shoe, but there is obviously a fair amount of Liner to work with...


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#18 Sun, Apr 25, 2010 1:06 PM

GSM-Peter
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Hi

Ok, I just assumed that on can heat up the plastic, insert a 'ski hinge'  (was that the rigt word?) and then press out the boot like they do on ski boots.

I have not thought of trying to contact Radar.
It is usally not so easy from Sweden (tried a few times before).

Have a nice day!

Brgds

Peter


Life is too short not to enjoy every day. Living well is the best revenge!

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#19 Mon, May 3, 2010 7:36 AM

GSM-Peter
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Hi all

Problem solved!

I tried to purchase the deal from the Radar shop in US but they recommend Ski Marine in Stockholm.
Since Ski Marine is really nice to deal with I ended up with a Radar Theory 67'' 2008 with one Vector and one RTP boot.
Final price was reasonable close to the US price so I am happy.
I might replace the RTP if I find this suitable.

Thank you all for your contributions!


Life is too short not to enjoy every day. Living well is the best revenge!

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#20 Mon, May 3, 2010 12:14 PM

Galejan
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Near you is good if anything goes wrong, hope you enyoj your new setup.
Welcome to ski in Nyköping.

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#21 Tue, May 4, 2010 6:45 AM

GSM-Peter
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Hi Galejan

Thank you for the invitiation. I might take you up on this one since now I need plenty of training.
My goal this season will be to manage one run in the senior track with most suitable speed and rope length!


Life is too short not to enjoy every day. Living well is the best revenge!

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#22 Wed, Jun 16, 2010 2:23 PM

GSM-Peter
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Progress report

Thanks again for all advices and discussions!!!

Have tried the new ski three times. Two to three runs per time.
The Radar binding is really great. I completely agree that it is much, much more comfortable than my old rubber binding.

Ski technique, well I am rather stable, running free rides working on my position.
I have had some really useful coaching from skilful colleges.
Starting on one ski with both fetes in the bindings (the only way I get up on one ski) works as long as I am not too tired.
A few times I had to use a spare ski to get up :0(

I will make some more free runs working on stand, drag rhythm before I go into the course.
I think that is better than start to chase buoyancies too early.

G'd night from Sweden

Have a nice day in US!

Peter


Life is too short not to enjoy every day. Living well is the best revenge!

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#23 Thu, Jun 17, 2010 8:18 AM

ricar116
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Peter sounds exciting. My personal experience was going from a 71"Triumph to a 69"Senate. The Senate was harder to get up on more energy to ski. When tired I  fell back on the Triumph. This season I sold my Triumph so I couldn't fall back to the old standby. Best move I ever made. Getting the Senate set up. Getting myself adjusted to the ski. The new ski will be more challenging, but way more fun. For what it's wortth. Good luck and have fun!!!!!!!

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#24 Fri, Jun 18, 2010 1:20 PM

GSM-Peter
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

Hi Ricar

Great that you sold your old back up.
Now you have to rider your Senate every time.
I assume that that is the best way (I brought my old ski with me just in case I would fail on the new one. I did not use it and will not bring it any more as back up).

I was actually looking at the Senate as well but finally I decided that I should improve in small steps.
Was afraid that a small ski would be to difficult for me.

However, I am sure that my ski will not be the limiting factor for me next few years.
According to my understanding the Theory will not be limiting until speed above 52 to 55 km/h on 16 meters line.
If I happened to ski that well that I really need a new ski I will for sure give me a new one!

Keep up the good work and report your progress!

Cheers

Peter from a rainy Stockholm (hoping for better whether for the famous Princess wedding tomorrow)


Life is too short not to enjoy every day. Living well is the best revenge!

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#25 Fri, Jun 18, 2010 2:02 PM

Galejan
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Re: First Time Slalom Course Experience - Ski Advice

I think i´m in the same situation, have my old relieable Triumph with double venoms and a 9800SL with double power shells.
A bit too big diffrens for me i think, but now i trying to do a smoother transition by putting the powershells on the Triumph(wow, a new ski), later on make the whole transition.

Any comment on that? right or wrong?

Peter, its not only rain, i´m forced to watch the celebrations of the Princess wedding on tv(live).
But when the wedding is i will be sitting in the boat to make some waterskiers happy.

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