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T Handle / Pro Ski Coach Water Ski Forum
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#1 Sun, Mar 14, 2010 2:13 PM

Garn
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
From: Alpine, Utah
Registered: Thu, May 17, 2007
Posts: 139
Skis At: Utah Lake
Foot Forward: Right

T Handle

http://www.handlehut.com/

Here's the URL for the website for that new T-Handle.  Pretty hefty price for the carbon fiber version.

Garn

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#2 Sun, Mar 14, 2010 3:00 PM

HO410
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sat, Sep 29, 2007
Posts: 345
Skis At: Outlaw Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: T Handle

It might be that the demands of wakeboarding and hydrofoil are significantly different, but I cannot imagine that such a configuration would be stable enough to slalom with.

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#3 Sun, Mar 14, 2010 3:32 PM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: T Handle

interesting. Hmmmmm...

Very little avail. info. on a very new web site. I'm wondering about length's and dia.'s as well as the feasibilty and cost for Slalom use.

I don't see the advantage to carbon? neutral Wgt.? roll(give up a beer or two and some crappy fast foods and knock off pounds while saving $$$!) -ha,ha

Last edited by h20dawg79 (Sun, Mar 14, 2010 3:34 PM)


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#4 Sun, Mar 14, 2010 4:25 PM

Thomas Wayne
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sun, Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 228

Re: T Handle

h20dawg79 wrote:

[...] give up a beer or two and some crappy fast foods [...]

Bite your tongue.

TW

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#5 Mon, Mar 15, 2010 3:41 PM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: T Handle

Thomas Wayne wrote:

h20dawg79 wrote:

[...] give up a beer or two and some crappy fast foods [...]

Bite your tongue.

TW

Sorry! -That was my darn practical side thinking out load again!big_smile ( my "practical side" is my wife & childrens most unfavorite part of me... - As far as I know anyway!) roll


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#6 Mon, Mar 15, 2010 3:51 PM

Andrew1988
Karma:   
Slasher
From: White Lake, MI
Registered: Mon, Feb 8, 2010
Posts: 84
Skis At: Where ever I can
Foot Forward: Left

Re: T Handle

I don't really see how that would be good for wakeboarding either. Because I see handle passes in spins being very difficult.


Looking for places to ski in Metro Detroit!

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#7 Tue, Jun 8, 2010 9:23 AM

david38off
Karma:   -1 
Slasher
From: Hillsboro, TN
Registered: Tue, Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 53
Skis At: 34 mph
Foot Forward: left
Website

Re: T Handle

Be interesting to try this handle.  If it is usable it seems to eliminate the possibility of injury from getting your head in the handle.  Not sure, but having a single point to "pull" thru might actually be a good thing in slalom?  Has anyone actually tried this handle?

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#8 Tue, Jun 8, 2010 9:26 AM

david38off
Karma:   -1 
Slasher
From: Hillsboro, TN
Registered: Tue, Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 53
Skis At: 34 mph
Foot Forward: left
Website

Re: T Handle

It definitely is expensive though!

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#9 Tue, Jun 8, 2010 11:56 AM

StevenHaines
Karma:   11 
Slalom Mentor
From: Canyon Lake Ca.
Registered: Mon, Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 152
Skis At: Canyon Lake, Ca.
Foot Forward: right
Website

Re: T Handle

I thought that someone was trying it out here at Canyon a couple months ago. I'll see if I can get any feed back.

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#10 Tue, Jun 8, 2010 1:42 PM

Thomas Wayne
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sun, Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 228

Re: T Handle

I personally think it's one of the most dangerous looking ideas I've ever seen.

TW

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#11 Tue, Jun 8, 2010 2:07 PM

StevenHaines
Karma:   11 
Slalom Mentor
From: Canyon Lake Ca.
Registered: Mon, Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 152
Skis At: Canyon Lake, Ca.
Foot Forward: right
Website

Re: T Handle

I'm a little skeptical myself! But I think (for me) it's 'cuz it looks SO different.

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#12 Tue, Jun 8, 2010 2:29 PM

HO410
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sat, Sep 29, 2007
Posts: 345
Skis At: Outlaw Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: T Handle

To echo myself.

Looks like a grappling hook

We still use triangle handles because that shape is stable.

That "T" is a lever and I'd expect it to get real funky (phrasing it nicely) if one side of the handle is overloaded.

Last edited by HO410 (Tue, Jun 8, 2010 2:31 PM)

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#13 Tue, Jun 8, 2010 2:43 PM

Thomas Wayne
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sun, Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 228

Re: T Handle

The AWSA Hall of Fame has a very interesting collection of waterski products dating back to the 1920's.  Among those pieces are many different handle inventions, including a "T" handle that is essentially exactly what is this thread is about.  There are so many things bad about this handle design it would be hard to know where to begin.

Another, similarly bad idea was an "L" (or "7") shaped handle bent out of thin steel tubing (see CAD drawing below).  The main question on my mind is if they wisely took this thing off the market before someone lost a kidney...

TW

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n293/ThomasWayne_2006/Deathhandle1.jpg

Last edited by Thomas Wayne (Tue, Jun 8, 2010 2:44 PM)

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#14 Tue, Jun 8, 2010 2:51 PM

owenjas
Karma:   
Regular
Registered: Thu, Nov 27, 2008
Posts: 17
Foot Forward: Lefty

Re: T Handle

Seems to me with a T-handle you would have to think a lot about putting equal pressure through each hand. Plus would be very difficult when the boat starts to pick you up out of the turn if you haven't returned the free hand.

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#15 Tue, Jun 8, 2010 3:16 PM

danbirch
Karma:   11 
Slasher
From: Canyon Lake, CA
Registered: Mon, Nov 24, 2008
Posts: 75
Skis At: Canyon Lake, CA
Foot Forward: Left

Re: T Handle

I tried it out for Mike Murphy at the VonZabern Tournament.  It was a proto-type he had, and ran 28 off with it.  Because it was only his proto-type, it was a little heavy, but it was VERY STABLE, much more than I expected.  It felt like you had MORE stability coming out of the turn than with a traditional handle.  The other thing i thought was awesome was the ability to hook up onto the handle from the outside of it, and coming in on it, unlike traditional handles where you have the rope in the way at the end.

As far as safety goes, I think there are pro's and con's, but I will be anxious to try the final carbon version.

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#16 Tue, Jun 8, 2010 3:51 PM

Thomas Wayne
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sun, Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 228

Re: T Handle

I'd be interested in hearing about the safety "pros" - other than there's no opening to stick yous arm / head into.  What would any other safety pros be?

As for the cons, to me it seems like you'd essentialy be dragging around a double hook, just waiting to hang up on something.  The very design aspect that gives it any stability at all - the length of the rigid member between the  handle and the rope attachment point - also dictates that if it snags on a buoy it's definitely going to tear the buoy out (maybe even destroy a part of the course).

If it catches on a dock member it's anybody's guess what might break first, OR it could just become a deadly slingshot flying back at whomever is in the boat.

Worst of all, if it catches on a skier in the water (perhaps waiting for the handle) some sort of injury looks very possible and may be severe.

As I said above, in my opinion it's one of the most dangerous looking [handle] ideas I've ever seen.

TW

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#17 Tue, Jun 8, 2010 7:29 PM

slalomskier
Karma:   
Regular
Registered: Mon, Mar 22, 2010
Posts: 18
Skis At:
Foot Forward: Left

Re: T Handle

Seems like a waste of money if you are going to buy it for safety reasons see all of Thomas Wayne's reasons above.  Waterskiing is a dangerous sport and one of the dangers is getting caught in the handle there is no way to completely take away the dangers of the handle getting caught on some object or body part it is just part of the sport.  As for performance factors I really don't see anything wrong with a regular old handle "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

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#18 Tue, Jun 8, 2010 8:30 PM

david38off
Karma:   -1 
Slasher
From: Hillsboro, TN
Registered: Tue, Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 53
Skis At: 34 mph
Foot Forward: left
Website

Re: T Handle

In theory I think it might be great idea for slalom.  Might actually force you to "pull" evenly with both arms instead of (as most of us do), leading with the head and pulling hard with the "lead" arm.  As for safety aspect , it seems infinitely better than "mesh" and twisty ties in a traditional handle. But I'd like to try one just to see what it felt like.  Does he allow a demo?

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#19 Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:33 AM

2gofaster
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
From: Cypress, Tx
Registered: Sun, Jun 1, 2008
Posts: 337

Re: T Handle

You might not can fall into this one with your head. But think about what the damage would be if you fell into it at the apex of the turn like is prone to happen and that thing pokes you in the eye.  It's not going to be good.


Shane Hill

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#20 Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:40 AM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: T Handle

I'm still speculating on my speculation?!?!big_smile


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#21 Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:13 AM

Garn
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
From: Alpine, Utah
Registered: Thu, May 17, 2007
Posts: 139
Skis At: Utah Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: T Handle

Thomas Wayne wrote:

I'd be interested in hearing about the safety "pros" - other than there's no opening to stick yous arm / head into.  What would any other safety pros be?TW

That's a pretty damn big pro if you ask me!  How many do you need?  The couple of people who were killed by getting their head caught in it wouldn't be dead if they had been using this handle.  I get  the idea  DUH (TW) that you don't like it because you didn't come up with it first.

Garn

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#22 Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:13 AM

StevenHaines
Karma:   11 
Slalom Mentor
From: Canyon Lake Ca.
Registered: Mon, Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 152
Skis At: Canyon Lake, Ca.
Foot Forward: right
Website

Re: T Handle

One thing is for sure with this handle, you can't get you head, arm or any part of your body stuck in the yoke area, but couldn't you still catch your head or neck on the bull horn area? I'm not saying that this handle is a bad idea or anything, 'cuz I haven't tried it. I'd like the opportunity to try it. Like david38off said, "DEMO" ?

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#23 Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:30 AM

david38off
Karma:   -1 
Slasher
From: Hillsboro, TN
Registered: Tue, Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 53
Skis At: 34 mph
Foot Forward: left
Website

Re: T Handle

I guess the handle could hit you in the head, but so could ANY handle.  I think it would be very unlikely to "catch" you during a fall. As far as snagging the skier when you circle to pick him up?? I think the speed at which you go to pick up skier or return the handle to the skier is slow enough that injury is not very likely.   Not saying it couldnt happen, but like Garn said the whole safety issue has to do with getting caught in the handle (arm , or head), and I think it would be impossible with this handle.  Still uncertain of the efficiency of skiing with a handle like this.  But it does seem to be extremely safe to me.

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#24 Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:40 AM

HO410
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sat, Sep 29, 2007
Posts: 345
Skis At: Outlaw Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: T Handle

I see plenty of space to put your arm into that handle. At that point, the stability of the handle becomes  big liability. Maybe I'm biased because I have an Arm-Guard on my 12" Masterline and am more than pleased with the ability of that combination to deflect the handle way from my body in a fall.

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#25 Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:32 AM

david38off
Karma:   -1 
Slasher
From: Hillsboro, TN
Registered: Tue, Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 53
Skis At: 34 mph
Foot Forward: left
Website

Re: T Handle

Um??  OK??  Maybe I'm looking at a different  handle?  The one I see on the above web page, I dont see any possible opening that an arm could get stuck in?

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