Another ski choice opinion thread / Pro Ski Coach Water Ski Forum

codertimt · #1 Tue, Jul 7, 2009 4:18 PM

Okay, I have a question for someone who might be familiar with both lines of skis I possess. I've recently started skiing again after a 5 or so year hiatus. And it was quite sporatic when I would get out even before then. Back "in the day" I was a fairly aggressive open water skier, I wasn't dropping my hip in water or anything, but I could turn and cut fairly well.

I was 5'10' 190lbs and had a 69" HO VTI circa 1994. Cut to today and I currently weigh in at 240. Getting up on the VTI wasn't quite as easy as it used to be(behind a small I/O) and my skill level has tapered off a bit. While at the store buying ski gloves I "accidentally" came out with a 69" HO Comp Free Ride Charger. It was $150 with a Shock boot and RTP, so I thought I just couldn't pass it up... Now I'm beginning to regret the decision.

Anyway, I know the Comp Free Ride is theoretically perfect for my size and current skill level, but as I continue to lose weight(I actually started at 255) and regain my old form, would I be better off going back to the VTI or will the Comp Free Ride keep up with an increasing open water skill level just fine? Currently skiing it at ~30mph, and although comfortable, it feels slow and not terribly stable during a hard cut, although I'm sure a bit of that is my current form or lack thereof...or possibly there is some setup that could be done...

I guess I just feel like I'm taking a step backwards... Given the opportunity, I would love to learn to run the course and wouldn't want the new ski to actually be a detriment to that....especially when I have a perfectly good but older "aggressive" ski...

Thoughts, opinions...unanswerable questions?

Anyway, thanks for reading. Really enjoy the site.
Tim

JayG · #2 Tue, Jul 7, 2009 6:40 PM

I was on the Charger about 10 years ago and weighed about 255. It was a good ski and I was able to run the course at 28 mph. If you are struggling to get up behind the I/O then I would stay on the Charger. Is there a way to get better hole shot from your boat? Maybe a different prop will pull you up a bit stronger?

Moving up to 30 mph, it was more difficult to ski the course on the Charger because the tail blew out during the turns. I recall that ski had a pretty shallow fixed fin but maybe the newer models have an adjustable fin?. My ski coach replaced it with an adjustable fin & box.

Just for grins you may try and mount the VTI fin and its adjustable fin box on the Charger. Once I moved past 30 mph, I replaced the Charger with a HO CDX and I think it is similar to the VTI. It was faster and turned well.

After your starts are not an issue, you will probably want to return to the VTI or a newer ski like the D3 Custom X or the Radar Senate C.

codertimt · #3 Tue, Jul 7, 2009 7:46 PM

Thanks for the response. My starts on the VTI weren't too bad once I re-propped and re-discovered my starting form...and dropped those first 15lbs. The Charger is just an easier pull with a fairly full boat. The fact that my VTI needs a new binding and rtp, and I figured my current weight was too much for a "normal" ski is what prompted the impulse purchase...

My Charger is a 2007 model I believe. I'm pretty sure the fin isn't adjustable, but didn't seem terribly shallow compared to the VTI, but I haven't measured...something to look at.

I hope to get back to the water soon and get some more time on the new ski, it was mid week in our vacation when I bought it, and my out of shape muscles were already pretty fatigued by that time. So some time out it while fresh might enlighten me some more...

Anyone familiar with mid-90s HO gear have an opinion on how the VTI would compare to current day tech of performance recreational skis...

Also, for anyone familiar with the HO Comp Free Ride, any suggestion for starting binding placement? I should probably at least double check where the shop mounted the boot/rtp.

Thanks again,
Tim

HO410 · #4 Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:00 PM

2.5" is factory depth on the A1 if that gives you any idea. I would think more that the fin is just plain long.

Ditto on the fin block. What you get from the factory will allow you to move the fin forward or backward maybe 1/4." Go ahead and move if forward if you can and see what that does, but that is generally not enough flexibility to tune the ski. You can make a decent ski good and you can make a great ski an absolute dog with fin settings.

If you need a transition ski, you need a transition ski. At $150 that's less than the cost of a new Animal so you're in pretty good shape. Also, you'll have a good ski to start beginners on when you start to teach them what you know. I don't think you'll want to go back to the VTI though. Newer skiers are leaps and bounds quicker and more predictable. And with the new round of syndicate skis, when you're ready, you'll be able to find Monzas for well below $500 (and that might even be for a brand shiny new ski)

codertimt · #5 Wed, Jul 8, 2009 6:44 AM

And thanks for your response HO 410... I guess it's time to let the VTI go... I will definitely cannibalize the adjustable fin, although I'm sure I'm still a ways away from being on form enough to really start playing with fin settings.

I think you're right about the transition ski also... I've got a long way to go before I'm anywhere close to being in decent skiing shape and the Freeride should make the experience getting there a more enjoyable one. There's probably a 99.9% chance that the "stability through the wake" problems I perceived are caused by my weak back and poor form. It's just easier to blame the equipment.

So, I'll be giving the Freeride more of a chance...and we'll just have to take it from there to see when/if I end up upgrading...

Anyway with experience with these skis feel free to still chime in. I love to hear other people's thought/opinions on these kind of things...

Tim

lagdawg · #6 Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:48 PM

Tim,

I started out on a Charger as well. I was never able to run the course on it though. It felt sluggish, wouldn't turn, and I had the worst technique ever (actually I was just glad I would get up). I weighed between 245-255 at that time.

3 years ago I bought a boat joined a club and bought a new ski. I got a D3 Custom and that ski treated me fairly well as a learning ski and that year I finally ran a full pass in the course and got my first ever tournament pass that year as well skiing at 28 mph.

Last season I had the opportunity to buy a 69" Sixam SS. Since then I have really improved my technique and now skiing better than ever. I bet that I could now go back and make that Charger work for me now that I have improved technique, but to tell you the truth, that D3 Custom was the most forgiving and easiest to ski ski I ever got on. The only issue is that it got to be a little too soft for my weight once I started trying to ski 34 and 36 mph. I think that any newer ski will be better than the VTI, but it seems like the D3s are extremely forgiving for many different styles. Like you I have lost some weight this summer 270 to 250 and hope to keep losing more, but I am skiing right now better than I ever have.

Chef23 · #7 Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:26 PM

I think you should stick with the Charger. I got back into the course about 5 years ago after not having skied much for 15 years and I skied the Charger into 28 off at 34 mph. With the proper technique there is no reason you can't ski the Charger in the course. Particularly if you are skiing behind an IO the Charger will be better to help you up and will still perform well.

Chef23 · #8 Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:47 PM

lagdawg wrote:
Tim,

I started out on a Charger as well. I was never able to run the course on it though. It felt sluggish, wouldn't turn, and I had the worst technique ever (actually I was just glad I would get up). I weighed between 245-255 at that time.

3 years ago I bought a boat joined a club and bought a new ski. I got a D3 Custom and that ski treated me fairly well as a learning ski and that year I finally ran a full pass in the course and got my first ever tournament pass that year as well skiing at 28 mph.

Last season I had the opportunity to buy a 69" Sixam SS. Since then I have really improved my technique and now skiing better than ever. I bet that I could now go back and make that Charger work for me now that I have improved technique, but to tell you the truth, that D3 Custom was the most forgiving and easiest to ski ski I ever got on. The only issue is that it got to be a little too soft for my weight once I started trying to ski 34 and 36 mph. I think that any newer ski will be better than the VTI, but it seems like the D3s are extremely forgiving for many different styles. Like you I have lost some weight this summer 270 to 250 and hope to keep losing more, but I am skiing right now better than I ever have.

Lag,

I am interested in your thoughts on the 69" Sixam SS. I weigh about 230 and am looking to replace my 70" Monza which doesn't turn well on my offside. The 69" Sixam is of interest to me. What do you weigh right now and what speed and line lengths are you running at the moment?

codertimt · #9 Tue, Jul 28, 2009 2:52 AM

In the voice of Austin Powers: "But what does it all mean Basil...."

Okay, it took awhile, but I finally got the chance to get back to the lake a couple more times. I'm working on the basic basics here. The Comp Freeride just does not feel stable for me crossing the wake with speed... Can't get more basic than that. I took my old VTI back out today, just to compare and it felt fine. Both skis get a little pop on the Everest size wake long line behind my I/O, but the VTI just sticks back down in the water. The Comp Freeride just seems to skate around underneath me...not sure how best to describe it...

Now, one other thing, the boot on the new ski is too large currently and my foot is definitely moving around...could this be the culprit or a contributing factor?

Anyway, any input would be appreciated...
Tim

h20dawg79 · #10 Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:34 AM

codertimt wrote:
In the voice of Austin Powers: "But what does it all mean Basil...."

Now, one other thing, the boot on the new ski is too large currently and my foot is definitely moving around...could this be the culprit or a contributing factor?

Anyway, any input would be appreciated...
Tim

I don't know if it could be the culprit but, surely a contributing Neg. factor... -I couldn't imagine trying to ski with any "mustard" on it while having Loose bindings!

At the very least, I would put in some foot beds (cushy arch support systems) from Walmart and maybe even wear a sock as well... You can velcro the beds in so you don't lose them.

codertimt · #11 Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:53 AM

And a month and a week later, I managed to make it back to the lake. Back to school and the fact the wife works on the weekend really make it hard to find the time...

Anyway, just wanted the update this thread in case anyone stumbled upon it searching for information about the Comp Freeride. Rule #1, even if you're on lower end gear, use properly sized equipment. I went down to the "Standard" size binding and the ski now feels great. I basically had no control with my the loose fitting "XL" size. Now, I feel like I can actually start working on improving things...

Thanks everyone,
Tim