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Mid Season Slump - Help! / Pro Ski Coach Water Ski Forum
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#1 Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:04 AM

tjo
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From: Draper, UT
Registered: Wed, Apr 23, 2008
Posts: 197
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Mid Season Slump - Help!

Guys, I think I may be in a bit of a mid-season slump and am looking for some help.  I was skiing better the first of April than I am right now. 

Last week I paid for a few lessons.  The coach kept telling me to do two things:

1) Shift my weight forward on my offside turn (almost to the point of digging the tip of the ski into the water).  I was told to have my hips and inside shoulder leading my feet on that turn.
2) shift my weight further forward and straighten my back when crossing the wakes. 

I think I've got the feel of #1...it is #2 that I am struggling with.  While skiing with the coach I took a nasty fall crossing the wakes from my offside turn to the my onside (I'm RFF so going from odd ball to even ball). Then I did the same thing yesterday morning.  The crash is happening right as I cross the wakes and have maximum speed...and I am going over the front of the ski and tumbling/skipping/flipping off of the water.  It does not feel good and I don't care to keep repeating that crash. 

Logic would tell me I've got too much weight forward while crossing the wakes on that side.  Sorry for all of the background to ask this simple question: WHAT IS THE RIGHT BODY POSITION WHILE CROSSING THE WAKES?    Specifically, while crossing the wakes from offside to onside.

Thanks in advance.


Travis Ogden

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#2 Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:30 AM

2gofaster
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From: Cypress, Tx
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Posts: 337

Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

He was probably trying to tell you to pull your hips up, stand tall, and open your shoulders and hips to the boat and feel that trailing arm pressure build to the center of the wake.  If you turn your leading shoulder back away from the boat, it can cause your shoulders to lead your hips and feet and cause nasty falls. My guess is your hips are back as you hit the wake.


Shane Hill

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#3 Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:46 AM

miski
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From: Saline, MI
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Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

TJO,

I just had similar experience, but it was all at once when I went from a lake that was still cooler (74deg) to an 80+ deg lake. Was really getting slowed down into turns in warmer water which ended up with me out of position, narrow and just feeling really bad in general - and I had what would have certainly been an award winning out-the-front across the wake going from 3 to 4. My ski was halfway back to odd buoy line and I was almost to the even buoy line! Luckily there was zero pain or injury...

The next day I was back skiing in the cooler lake and skied fine - the turns certainly were better (faster) than the night before. Then on Thr I went from 8 to 6deg on wing and I felt more like when I was skiing well a month ago - defiantly faster across wake and out to buoy line, nice and wide, and was working on being patient in the pre-turn again as in May so not to miss on the early side. Now that I think back over the last couple of years that I have pretty much left my setup constant, I think there was a trend that the warmer it was, the worse I skied - ie mid-summer slump. Now I think that I've been frustrating myself all this time because I didn't think I was skiing at a level where I needed to worry about setup adjustments.

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#4 Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:03 AM

tjo
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From: Draper, UT
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Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

2GoFaster, I'll focus on not dropping that leading shoulder.  That makes sense that it will help square me straighten me out.  Should the shoulders and hips be in line with or behind the feet while crossing the wakes?

MiSki, thanks for sharing your experience.  I've never adjusted the fin or even the boot settings.  Like you, I've always thought that I'm not at that level yet.  I am currently skiing at 22 off, 34 MPH.  Sounds like I need to study up on that topic and potentially try that wing adjustment.   Forgive my ignorance, but going from 8 degree to 6 degree, should theoretically do what to the ski when turning and/or crossing the wakes?  Would that flatten out the ski, and if so how does that help with the wake crossing?

Thanks!


Travis Ogden

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#5 Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:31 AM

2gofaster
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From: Cypress, Tx
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Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

miski, I had a conversation with Schnitz yesterday about what you're mentioning.  I asked him what's the better adjustment when going from cool to warm. He said he'd rather see someone move the fin forward(increase DFT) .001 for every 1 degree increase in water temperature.  I asked him about this for the same reason you mentioned. I had been feeling like I was not able to get free of the boat and get the ski back in front of me at the end of the turn now that the water is 90 degrees and had changed my wing from 9 to 8.


Shane Hill

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#6 Fri, Jun 26, 2009 1:14 PM

JasonHutchins
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From: Salt Lake City
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Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

It is not uncommon for people experimenting with leading w/ their center of mass to take a few spills.  I prefer to teach this using pull-out drills, therefore eliminating the wake crossing and the potential for tripping.  Like 2gofaster said, the biggest thing to remember is you are trying to lead with your CM, core/pelvic area.  If you start leading with your shoulders and trailing your hips you are going to be moving your center of gravity higher. This will make you loose stability and balance and make yourself a high risk candidate for the big otf.  Finally summer in UT!  On my way to Draper right now crush some singletrack.

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#7 Fri, Jun 26, 2009 2:43 PM

tjo
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From: Draper, UT
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Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

Ya, no kidding!!  This month has been crazy wet and cold.  Other than today, it's been a pretty good week, so hopefully the sunshine is here to stay for a while.

Thanks for the advice Jason.  I'm going to be in Powell all of next week, so I'll have way too much free skiing opportunities on my hands (and not enough course opportunity).  Therefore, I'm going to try and use the free skiing to work on some of these things...specifically that pull out drill. 

Travis


Travis Ogden

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#8 Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:24 PM

ScotChipman
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Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

Jason,

Nick told me you were living in Utah and I was surprised. Are you getting enough time on the water? Utah does not have many places to water ski to go along with our great snow skiing. I ski on Utah Lake every Tuesday and Thursday from around 10am - 3pm if you are ever looking for a place to ski I have room for a third at times. The water is high this year and we have the best place in the state right now, just ask Nick.


Scot Chipman

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#9 Sat, Jun 27, 2009 6:30 AM

h20dawg79
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From: nashville,tn.
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Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
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Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

2gofaster wrote:

He was probably trying to tell you to pull your hips up, stand tall, and open your shoulders and hips to the boat and feel that trailing arm pressure build to the center of the wake.  If you turn your leading shoulder back away from the boat, it can cause your shoulders to lead your hips and feet and cause nasty falls. My guess is your hips are back as you hit the wake.

I'll 2nd this advice! I would also try to get a vid. cam on board and see whats going on. If your head and/or shoulders are Leading the way (even slightly) and you get off balance (even slightly) the chances are dramatically increased for an OTF... If you combind this with trying to implement some New techniques and a little muscle fatigue,  how much more is the opportunity?

My last good practice came 2 wks. ago while trying to nurse an injury to my Back... I was free skiing well within my limits, forced to be lighter and quieter due to the pain and I was working on what sounds like the same advice your coach gave you... I was amazed how much better I was able to acheive good results on the open water! (even when the water cond.'s were very poor at times!)
I skied some very Long runs through all kinds of water conditions and it Really paid off... (Too bad I didn't take it as easy my next 2 visits to the coarse, I hurt my back even more and now I'm completely side lined!)sadsadsad

Good Luck & STAY HEALTHY!smile


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#10 Sat, Jun 27, 2009 1:30 PM

tjo
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From: Draper, UT
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Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

Thanks H20.  Good luck on that back injury.  BTW, i skied with a guy last week that used a back brace.  Actually, it resembled a weight lifting belt more than anything, but made specifically for waterskiing...to support the lower back.  Since I sometimes suffer from a sore lower back after skiing, I tried it and liked it.  The belt did not bother me while skiing, and in fact the extra support gave me a boost of confidence.  Not sure if this would help you in your situation.

Travis


Travis Ogden

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#11 Sun, Jun 28, 2009 1:20 PM

JasonHutchins
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From: Salt Lake City
Registered: Thu, Oct 30, 2008
Posts: 17
Skis At: I wish I had a place
Foot Forward: Left

Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

Scott,
Yeah, I'm a little surprised myself that I'm here in UT for the summer.  The whole driving across the country twice a year deal is getting old, expensive, and not exactly environmentally friendly.  Something has to give a little and this summer seemed like a decent year to back off the waterskiing a LITTLE.  The hard part for me is after struggling a bit for sets last summer my motivation is higher then ever.  I am still training hard off the water both for waterskiing and setting up for next winters freeskiing world tour.  I would love to take you up on your offer and get some sets in with you.  Nick did mention when he came back from coaching you guys that your site is great right now.  I work evenings so I'm pretty easy to get during the day.  Nick has my number and I'll try to get yours from him.  Maybe see you soon.

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#12 Mon, Jun 29, 2009 12:36 PM

BuoyChaser
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 216
Skis At: Long Pond, Northwood NH
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Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

Jason Hutchins wrote:

If you start leading with your shoulders and trailing your hips you are going to be moving your center of gravity higher. This will make you loose stability and balance and make yourself a high risk candidate for the big otf.

I believe this is what I was doing on my offside, so easy just to focus on the shoulders and forget about the hips.


2008 MC PS197 with ZO upgrade with 2011 Radar Senate C 67" working to smoke that 36-28 consistently in any tourney.

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#13 Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:21 AM

ColinCanski
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From: Kent, England
Registered: Sat, May 17, 2008
Posts: 83
Skis At: Gosfield WSC
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Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

I too suffered badly from a early to mid season slump. From 3's and 4's @ 34, to struggling to run 30mph, no amount of coaching was working, and I felt I was wasting my time and money, To the point of stating in one of my ski logs, something like, one more set like that and it'll be an ebay set.

So I stopped skiing for 4 weeks. Stopped reading the forums, stopped looking at the weather. Stopped thinking about skiing.

Last Sunday, England had its annual hot and sunny day so I went to the lake and ran 2 @ 55mph off the dock.

Sometimes a rest is as good as a change. All is well again.


Ski to Live - Live to Ski

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#14 Tue, Jun 30, 2009 6:40 AM

MattP
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From: Kennesaw, Ga
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Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

I also did this, I took two weeks off not because I wanted to but I was out of town for a week then my ski partners were out of town the following week. All I did was take mental sets. I have been having trouble running 15 & 22 off at 34mph. We went out last thursday and my skiing form just changed (for the better) and I skied all the way into 35 off. Taking a break was possibly the best thing I could have done for my skiing.


Looking for a place to ski near Kennesaw, Ga.
-MattP

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#15 Wed, Jul 1, 2009 5:17 AM

ColinCanski
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From: Kent, England
Registered: Sat, May 17, 2008
Posts: 83
Skis At: Gosfield WSC
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

Strangely, the hot weather continues here in England, ran 4 @ 55 yesterday for a season best, thing is I was so early into 4, the macho thing kicked in; Give it the big one out of 4. Game Over. But happy again,as  long as I learn from my mistakes. Oh, and turning from the ankles up, seemed to improve my gates.

If  the head f**k of skiing is bad, just as well I don't play golf, I'd have probably launched all my clubs in to the rough by now!


Ski to Live - Live to Ski

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#16 Wed, Jul 8, 2009 9:56 AM

tjo
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From: Draper, UT
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Posts: 197
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Re: Mid Season Slump - Help!

Feel like I owe a quick post here to report back.  After reporting my mid-season slump I decided to check my fin and boot settings to make sure they actually were at factory recommended settings.  Scot Chipman was nice enough to show me the ropes on fin measurement, and we quickly noticed that the fin depth was NOT at the factory settings.  So I got everything set to factory settings, then was at Lake Powell all of last week free skiing and working on form and basics. 

Got back out on the course this morning for my first set since making these changes and ran my first 28 off!!!  Man it felt good...can't wait to get back out there.  One of the lessons I've learned is to never assume that your new ski is shipped with the recommended factory settings!


Travis Ogden

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