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38 Off Help / Pro Ski Coach Water Ski Forum
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#1 Wed, Jun 10, 2009 9:39 AM

chopper
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38 Off Help

Need help with 38 off. I ski @34 mph on a Goode 9800 SLR 67.25. I run 35 off about 75% of the time. When it comes to 38 I get slack at one no matter what I try. I'm getting wide on the boat with a controlled pullout, then try to do a turn all the way to the wakes without hooking up too hard, or as soft as I can in other words. Please Help: You 38 off Guys!!!!!

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#2 Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:02 PM

Traviski
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From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sat, May 10, 2008
Posts: 1
Foot Forward: Right

Re: 38 Off Help

38 is tough so many things can go wrong for so many different people. check these things...

pull out for the gate: u can go wide if you have a really slow turn in but don't exceed width of course, think about where the handle should be in regards to the bouy line while in the course and bring it there on your pullout.
or go narrower with a fast turn in but make sure the ski gets its angle before you hook up....

Keep the shoulders back during pull, and especially from wakes to bouy this is when it becomes hardest.

change edges and begin preturn with two hands first. doing a pull in with your back arm at time of edge change helps a lot.

change edges really fast, go edge to edge, again pulling in with back arm will help speed of edge change.

change edges right after wakes for 34mph.

if you have slack at the end of the turn absorb it with your legs and not your back! never let the boat pull you forward, always have shoulders back hips up and handle close! *I'm quad dominant meaning I use the front of my legs more than the back, not so good for slalom... think about activating the glutes on your way into the course, just squeeze them and remember to do just that and use your butt when your absorbing a hit.

good luck

and remember always evaluate yourself, I've worked on all these things at one time or another and I had to overcome each and every one in order to master 38 off.

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#3 Sun, Jun 14, 2009 3:20 PM

EdJohnson
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Re: 38 Off Help

Counter-rotation after the edge change, allowing the ski to maintain outbound direction will help keep a tight line. Then freezeing the counter and slideing the hip (center of mass) in the direction you want to go works for me. Also, continue rotating against the load of the boat till the 2nd wake sets up a nice compressed edge-change....ED

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#4 Mon, Jun 15, 2009 7:55 AM

rdl
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Re: 38 Off Help

Ed Johnson wrote:

Counter-rotation after the edge change, allowing the ski to maintain outbound direction will help keep a tight line. Then freezeing the counter and slideing the hip (center of mass) in the direction you want to go works for me. Also, continue rotating against the load of the boat till the 2nd wake sets up a nice compressed edge-change....ED

Ed, is the "continue rotating against the load of the boat till the second wake" you're talking about
where you rotate to face the boat with the shoulders ? thanks

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#5 Mon, Jun 15, 2009 8:54 AM

ColinBuchanan
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From: Lake Norman, NC
Registered: Tue, Oct 21, 2008
Posts: 175
Skis At: SkiTek
Foot Forward: Left

Re: 38 Off Help

I think what Ed is trying to say is that through the edge change your COM should be rotating away from the boat allowing your ski to cast out and ultimately have a tight line through the finish of the turn. Keep the shoulders square to the boat through the wakes and then allow counter rotation through the second wake so that in essence it should "feel" like you are always trying to counter rotate your hips and shoulders away from the boat and in the direction that your ski wants to travel. I like to think about maintaining trailing arm pressure through the wakes so that I can really see and feel the handle passing by my outside hip. Hope this helps and good luck!

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#6 Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:32 AM

rdl
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Re: 38 Off Help

Thanks Colin, but I'm talking about before the 2nd wake, where Ed talks "rotating against the load"
I'm assuming he's rotating upper body to face the boat, to continue to move the center of mass
towards the outbound direction, but I was wanting his input to clarify.

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#7 Tue, Jun 16, 2009 8:13 AM

EdJohnson
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Re: 38 Off Help

RDL, You are correct. I use a continuous rotation against the load of the boat towards the second wake. The pressure increases as you approach the center of the wake. You will open up more towards the boat. This pressure increase will cause compression of the legs to the point that it edge changes (pressure release) on it's own. Slowly releasing this pressure off the 2nd wake helps with a cast out of outbound direction.
I could go on and on here, but the important point is by not allowing the boat to rotate you from the hookup to the 2nd wake.... I tell my students "Twist Against the Load." The pressure build up creates the Edge Change. (pressure release).
I hope this clarifies you question.......ED

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#8 Tue, Jun 16, 2009 8:24 AM

rdl
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Re: 38 Off Help

Thanks Ed, that does clarify, I appreciate it.

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#9 Thu, Jun 18, 2009 10:45 AM

JasonHutchins
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Pro Skier
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: Thu, Oct 30, 2008
Posts: 17
Skis At: I wish I had a place
Foot Forward: Left

Re: 38 Off Help

I can honestly say this is the most confusing thread I have ever read.

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#10 Thu, Jun 18, 2009 11:36 AM

Terry_in_NC
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From: North Carolina
Registered: Tue, Feb 26, 2008
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Skis At: 32mph
Foot Forward: Left

Re: 38 Off Help

Let's try to confuse the issue some more. 

As long as you are on your cutting edge you maintain your counter roation.  Suyderhoud would call this a "step behind" rotation.  Going from 2 ball to 3 ball your counter roation is counter clockwise  (to the left)  and you keep pressure on the trailing arm, i.e. the left one.  This keeps the leading hip (the right one) moving outbound towards 3 ball.

When you transition to the turning edge (the edge change, again going from 2 to 3) the "counter rotation" now become clockwise (to the right).  The leading hip is now the left one. Suyderhoud would call this a "step ahead" rotation.

At least this is how I understand it.

Last edited by Terry_in_NC (Thu, Jun 18, 2009 11:42 AM)

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#11 Wed, Jul 1, 2009 8:23 PM

chopper
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Re: 38 Off Help

Ed, is the Suyderhoud description the same as what your talking about in your fist post? This is confusing, but good stuff.

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#12 Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:11 PM

EdJohnson
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Re: 38 Off Help

Chopper,
      Mike's DVD is very close to what I described. You cannot go wrong with his descriptions, and Poser, the Animated skier on the DVD, does a great job of showing what he describes. Mike taught me the One Handed Gate in 1993 and I have learned so much from him. His Dad was my Daughters Godfather and taught my Daughter Heather to ski when she was only 2. I can tell you he is always on the cutting edge of ski technique. I wish he would put out a second version with his latest techniques You can go to one of his clinics and I promise you will learn a lot.......ED

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