"Wow" !!! This is gonna stir the pot!

As I've stated in other post's, For me and those who I have either taught or will teach in the future, -For slalom skiing I'm a fan of dominate (ball kicking foot) in rear. But, I also agree with  "Speed Skiers" having their dominate foot in front. But, 1st and foremost "Teach 'em to Have fun!!!

I doubt There is Any exact or definitively "Correct" answer to this question... But, my thoughts for a RIGHT handed/ RIGHT footed person are as follows;

You throw a ball off of your rear foot, the right leg & D/F. (Dominate foot) Now consider how much power is derived from the baseball pitchers D/F & Right leg or even the baseball batter and the same is true as well for the boxer throwing a powerful straight Right "knock out punch", or in football, the W/R lines up Right foot D/F in rear... Slalom is clearly NOT a tug of war contest. BUT, for power and More importantly BALANCE & STABILITYduring the Pull aspect, -with the dynamic being simular to the tug of war contest Personally, I would also have my Right leg in rear... ( there are many more great examples...)

WTS, the Baseball pitcher "FINISHES", just like the batter, the Bowler and the Slalom skier at the buoys, -and that is; "Balanced, Over the top of the left leg"... This fact in No Way makes the left leg a dominate leg. However, it clearly demonstrates the relationship and priority of each leg. (in those examples, one creates power and direction and the other balance & stability. This is also, in and of it's self  a perfect example of the necessary harmony and balance between body parts...)

I feel that anyone who ever played some of these basic sports would quite naturally benefit from the "Balance & Power" they have developed from these activities and Obviously would be at a great advantage over those who did not... But, There again, it is also fair to say; it can be done either way and done well, either way... (One size doesn't fit All!) Although, Personally I would never "encourage" someone starting out to LEARN how to Slalom with their D/F (right foot for a rt. hander.) forward and Therefore, abandon the  opportunity for the above stated natural advantages, which I feel then creates a further deficit on their  "Off Side" (Left) turn, by the use of their weaker arm (Left arm) as their reaching arm, during  their "Off Side" turn and thus creating the "Weakside / Offside" turn...( As opposed to having your stronger Rt. arm reaching on your Off Side turn and Off Setting this weakness...)

Some have had the serious misconception that a D/F in Rear creates a "Tail Turner", -unable to create good tip pressure, etc... In most cases, This could not be further from the truth. Especially for the avid Athlete who participated in some of the above type of sports. As this person is already far above average with their Power & Balancing abilities between their Lt. & Rt. Legs and not near as likely to depend heavily on their dominate leg or rear leg for all aspects of skiing...

Oddly enough I used to ride a skate board RFF!

O.K. folks, -"Let the Games begin"...  (or as Pat Benatar might say: "Hit Me With Your Best Shot"... ha,ha...)

Last edited by h20dawg79 (Thu, Mar 12, 2009 12:27 AM)

Karina Nowlan              RFF

Born :  June 26, 1987
Home Town : Newcastle, Australia 
Personal Best : [email protected](39off)
Career Titles : 2008 Mastercraft Pro Tour Stop 2 Champion
2008 Mastercraft Pro Tour Stop 3 Champion
2008 French Malibu Open Champion
2008 Under 21 World Slalom Record

8 :
Lefty or Righty ?
Righty! Advantages and disadvantages... we could argue about that all day!

http://proskiers.com/athletes/interview … er=008.asp

Last edited by h20dawg79 (Wed, Mar 11, 2009 5:24 PM)

From where I come from, D/F in rear is Not a New idea. In fact, I have skied during the very same Decades as you! As much as some might like to lump every D/F in rear skier into some form of a Stop & Go, "tail turner", that solely relies on their D/F to ski upon, I have to say I can usually spot a D/F forward recreational skier because their form is normally Horribly bent at the waist, hips down with a slumped back. (Very hard to overcome...) While Most D/F in Rear rec. skiers have almost perfect form immediately... ***Please read #13 below for my apolgy and more accurate discription of this!
1. [[The baseball and other 'throwing sport' analogy is incorrect...]]  -My above analogy depicts the Leg functions Only and their part in the "over all Power and/or Balance aspect" in the sport or movement... (No Legs, No hips =No Action... regardless of upper-body movement or rotation...)

2. [[Power to the metal/water through the rear foot (in my view of others and myself), leads to inelegant transition through the turn by muscling the ski, rather than a graceful flow...]]  -I AGREE... -That is where and why the value of the Left leg at the "FINISH" of the movement in the above stated examples are So Vitally important for the Slalom skier to efficiently use the ENTIRE SKI... (and its a Tremendous value that most have Already learned through other sports... -So why re-invent the wheel and put the D/F forward?)

3. [[Right hand strength has merit in recovering from reach on the off side turn however.  (Cant you guys just beef up your left arm?)]]  -ha,ha... Good question! (maybe Gov. Arnold can weigh in on this one!)

4.[[ All that aside, given that to learn to 'single ski' (note - not slalom here), you need the beginner to stand on one foot by most start methods, is there not more chance for success using the foot they could stand on 'blindfolded' - ie. there dominant foot.  (The tendency to prefer dominant foot forward when splitting pedals to a coasting position on a bike also illustrates this well I think.)]]  -IMO, This "blindfolded" leg could Just as Easily be the Left leg as in the above "FINISH" position example.. And all this Pedal test does is help identify the Dominate leg. But, has No value in determining its optimum placement (front or rear) on the ski...

As for new skiers, God Bless them! God Bless as many lefty's & Righty's as the lakes will hold!!! And since it can be done either way and done well either way,  at the end of the day, -Who Really cares what foot they have had forward all day at the lake, when they finally hit the hay  -exausted from Smiling all Day!!!

Last edited by h20dawg79 (Sat, Mar 14, 2009 1:03 PM)

Oh, one more thing...I agree with h2odawg about skiers getting on the water...the more the merrier regardless of how they stand on their ski!  I love this sport...30 years into it even more than when I started!

bob_gbb wrote:

.  ps I am left handed by the way.)

Bob, I have to ask, if you are Left handed... -Is it safe to Assume you are also Left Footed? And therefore Left foot dominate? As I see your Avatar states that you are a Right foot forward skier.?

p.s. I am right handed & Legged, with LFF...

The word DOMINATE as I have written is defined; websters def: "to exercise control over; command; rule"...  Its Synonyms are; govern; control; direct; manage...

The word DOMINANT Websters def: i. Ruling; pre-dominant; Governing...  Its Synonyms are: prevalent; preponderant; predominate; predominant; paramount...

Yes, we also seem to have a dilemma on accurately distinguishing the "DOMINATE" or "DOMINANT" Foot/leg. As one leg may have more coordination and the other more strength... That is why I just use the Natural instinct method of the "Ball kicking foot". At least this method works for "Most" people as most people are the same Handed as they are footed/Legged and this then takes you back to my above examples of a Right handed; Pitcher, Batter, Bowler, Boxer and Slalom skier. (the exact opposite is also true for the LEFT Handed person as well...) Creating, or at least perpetuating the Total Balanced affect of both legs in action. (from the START of the movement "THROUGH" the "Transfering of the Bodt Wgt" into the  more important "FINISH" of the movement...) Hence, a total "Balance of pressure" on the Slalom ski, or being Totally Balanced and NOT favoring the front OR the rear Leg at all times...

Great Bunch of info. and thoughts so far, I Too hope more people might weigh in on this. As I feel too many people do Too many things without ever knowing why or even checking themselves and then sometimes carelessly pass it on to someone else.

Man I can't wait 'til Spring!

Last edited by h20dawg79 (Fri, Mar 13, 2009 2:33 PM)

Here we go, my two cents.
I'm left handed person. I kick the ball with my left foot, throw a ball with my left hand and a LFF on my ski, wakeboard and trick ski, even thou when I learned these sports I was RFF! These days I can go either way on my wakeboard or trick ski but not on the slalom ski.
When I do my one foots barefooting, it's so much easier standing on my right foot. I would think my left foot would be the stronger since I'm left handed but is not, I can totally tell which foot do go forward when I want to do my best.
Same at the gym doing one leg squats, etc.
My hubby is right handed and LFF.
As for not seing RFF bending at the waist and LFF skiing sideways, that's pretty interesting (funny) comment.
I see beginners RFF and LFF bending at the waist, that's just the way it is until they learn the proper stance on the ski, handle control, etc..
No matter if you're water or snow skiing we're always looking for the perfect (balance) stance on your skis.

Okay, so I said I wasn’t saying any more – I can’t resist.

Firstly, forget what I said about starts in a running race.  And forget what I said about rear foot looking like a surfing stance (cheap shot).  So some of the above is ‘rubbish’; I know this cause I’ve been ‘reading up’ and now understand all this stuff, (trust me).

What we’ve been talking about has its foundation in lateralization of motor and sensory control.  (Hemispheres in the brain.)  In 90% of people, motor control is effected in the left brain hemisphere which is responsible for modulation of the right side of the body.  Reaction times for this side (right) of the body, are shorter than that of the opposite side, due to neural lag associated with the interhemispheric transfer time required for left side motor initiation.  (Reverse this situation for left body preference.)

What the above is saying is that left brained and right handed/footed people have better reaction times and motor control on the right side of their body.

In 9 out 10 cases, a right handed person is also right footed.  In only 7 out of 10 cases is this true for left hand & foot correlation.

The following comes from “Side Bias: A Neuropsychological Perspective”.  Chapter 10. “Examining the Notion of Foot Dominance”.

In bilateral activity (both legs/feet), one foot has the role of posture stabilization, and the other object manipulation or lead out.  In this bilateral context, the mobilizing limb should be considered preferred and dominant.  Unilateral tasks (hop on one leg), are less useful in exhibiting foot preference or dominance.  Bilateral activity provides the accepted definition of foot preference; that being that the mobilizing or manipulating limb is dominant, with the other providing postural support being non-dominant.

So much for the science - need to re-post for what it means in skiing.  (This post is ridiculously long )

Bob,
I absolutely respect your reasoning and have enjoyed participating in dispelling as much crap as We possibly can! Your latest info. is quite interesting and note worthy.  I thank you (and anyone else who steps up) for your valued comments. As Most will Not touch this topic with a 10 ft. pole! (Maybe we should loan out a couple extra feet of ours! -we seem to have pole to spare!) -ha,ha...

With All  "Assumptions" concerning water skiing and its Exact relationship to either the uni or bi-lateral movements aside, When I consider the less impressive tried and trued, method of relativity, provided by the "Hands on Approach"... I am as convinced as ever, that the person who  Already has developed great Bi-lateral technique through innate or"Natural instincts" (i.e. -kicking a ball,etc.) and is then further complemented with the fluid velocity of Mass (transferring/balancing center of mass from leg to leg)  via common Bi-lateral activities such as: Throwing, Batting, Golfing, Bowling, etc... and with respect to foot placement, Are actually  hindering (Not Halting...) their progression and abilities by Arbitrarily switching their default, predominate foot positioning based on  Inspiration or Assumption of Reason-ability. And therefore, kind of needlessly re-inventing their own Athletic wheel... (seems very silly and counter-intuitive! -but, it is do'able.)

Anyone who has ever been a Bowler (Not necessarily someone who has only bowled a little...) can relate to the Enormous Demand for strength and Especially the Stability / Balance that is placed upon their "sub- dominate," Non Ball kicking Slide Leg at the foul line. They can also relate to how a person (like, me...) could also have Most Excellent results in meeting the demands of skiing with their sub-dominate Slide foot Forward on the Ski...(exactly what Seth was eluding to...) It's almost like having 2 dominate legs! That's 2 good legs to stand on! -or Ski on... Creating a more efficient, masterfully balanced bi-lateral ski machine!  And That's yet another way  I spell;  "Balanced Stance" or "Optimum foot placement for dummy's! -ha,ha! (just kidding!) -seriously just kidding!

I agree with the Notion and the Rationale that certainly "Might lead" someone to place a beginners (ball kicking) D/F Forward. On the surface, this reasoning  does "Sound" plausible. But, I must also consider that this Notion is only a Rationalized Conclusion.  And that, being largely or solely based upon the "speaking" or the "hearing" individuals preexisting knowledge, experience (or lack of...) and Therefore can only be viewed as an Opinion... ( As with some of My Reasoning as well!)  There are certainly pros this theory, but I feel, these are out weighed by a laundry list of cons. Therefore, armed with the few beneficial examples which I have previously illustrated, and their predominance in other bi-lateral sporting activities, etc.. whether learned or innate, they are continually reinforced through participation and will continue to be... Thus, I personally, would not "encourage" a beginner to start off nor end this way...(Notice I say "Encourage"?  -I would Not forbid it either.)

I'll assume, that Bob & I are a couple of "Old Goats" that are fairly set in our ways. But, my objective here has Less to do with trying to Change Bob or anyone else and More to do with helping to solidify what one might already know (me included...) or to help solidify what some are trying to learn or understand about this topic irregardless of whether they agree with me or Bob. As they are or will be the Captains of there own Vessels and will ultimately make their own Decisions as to how to best help "Their" new skiers anyway...(a huge responsibility!)  I think bob & I are actually on the very same team with some of the very same objectives and destination. (Priority- "The Next Generation of Skiers"...) We just differ Slightly with our paths on how to get there!  -The bible says; "As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another"...  Thanx Bob!

P.S. Bob, I have to ask, if you are Left handed... -Is it safe to Assume you are also Left Footed? And therefore Left foot dominate? As I see your Avatar states that you are a Right foot forward skier.?

As I Looked back upon this entire Thread, I thought to myself; -"The one thing that is rather evident here is our inherent quest for knowledge. Illuminating both our need  for it as well as our use of  this great gift... This gift (knowledge) comes without instructions. But, somehow seems to carry with it as much useful Value and as it does responsibility... The value of Good Relevant info. is obviously priceless but, how do we separate that from something that might only be the perception of truth or unfounded opinion? And what about the burden of responsibility that is placed square upon our shoulders when we choose to share our good relevant info. or unknowingly share our perceived value as though it were fact?

I came to these conclusions;  -With regards to all lefties, righties, myself and anyone in general;  "It is not enough to merely "know something," and even Less to only "perceive it"... Truth eludes those who allow it... (having the "Knowledge of" but, grossly lacking in Definitive facts or details...) The "Status Quo" hinders progression by way of  Blinders. But, "Ignorance" can outright stifle it. Columbus calmly sailed Against the "Status Quo" as well as the "Ignorance" in all the "How to Books"  - Also written by the "So called Experts"  of his time... (Experts???)  And what about Herb O'Brien? -How many times has he set sailed (or skied ) into the face of the Status Quo, "Nay-Sayers" and then dreamed up how many innovations that the other "so called experts" could then only copy???

"Ignorant" -is not quite the insulting word that most might "perceive" it to be.  i.e. -"You are so ignorant"!.. (sounds Demeaning, as if one is dumb or stupid.) "Ignorant" web.'s Def; 1. -Being void of the facts! (Simply not being informed!) One can actually have a high IQ and still be ignorant and yet, not be Stupid... Wasn't "Bad, Bad Leroy Brown" (perceived to be) The Baddest man in the whole damn town? Wasn't he just a might "Ignorant of the fact" that there is always someone a little badder? And then found out for himself  -The Hard way? How about the word "HUM-BUG" ? How many of us share in the Misconception that it has something to do with Santa Claus and/or Grumpy with a Lacking of the cheery Christmas spirit??? (that's Not even remotely close!) "Hum-bug" Web.'s def; 1.-a hoax, (in the movie, he was simply saying: -"Ahh, Santa is a Hoax"!) 2.spirit of deception or falseness. 3. an impostor...

Maybe the best we can do is Stop and THINK. And maybe Try to better Understand the things that we some how "Think (or assume) we know" and God help us to Not just Know the things we only "Perceive" to know and then Carelessly pass them on to others. ( Especially true for those of us who are an "Authority figure" and/or have some kind of title to stand behind or live up to...)  "Integrity, can take a life time to achieve. But, can be Lost in a single Moment".  -Hmmm...

Maybe spending as much time talking about what "We do Know" as we do Considering that in-which we "don't know" would be a Good start... I must therefore, consider #1 the ill effects or damage of my ignorance if I were to foolishly pass it on to others... #2 Remember, sooner or later as Mr. Brown found out, there's always someone around to help hold us accountable for our words and actions! #3 and Most importantly; -Never bring a knife to a Gun battle!   -ha,ha...

Calm glass water in Portland, OR-Sunrise.