Offer him wine, women and boat gas. If he doesnt accept that i would say you are SOOL.

MC

Thanks Wade.

Actually this not a club lake, its simply a lake in a field with a course on it.  He does let a local college ski team practice there, but other than that, its not busy at all (kind of off the beaten path).

I have my own boat, gear, etc. I sent the owner a letter today asking permission. I let him know that I am an experienced boater/skiier and have driven on lakes with small set ups such as his. I also let him know that I would be willing to help maintain the course etc.

I will keep you all posted.

hopefully you get on dude...

but...

Last edited by Blair (Wed, Mar 25, 2009 5:17 AM)

I'm with Steven. That's how I got involved with the lake I ski on. 2 brothers own it and it's for their family's personal use.  My 4 friends and I split maintenance and upkeep on it with them and they let us use it. We've worked out a great system over the last 12 years. We ski in the mornings and then the family uses it in the afternoons for the most part.  Things like dye, diesel for the pump when we need to pump, dock maintenance, etc are split 7 ways. Us 5 guys pay for new bouys for the course in the spring and do the upkeep on it. We also provide the ropes for 2 tournaments a year. It works out to costing me about $300 a year and a few hours a month to ski.

Adding the owner to your insurance is a great idea! When you help out, you get to take pride in the site, almost like pride of ownership without the initial investment. I don't know if that site has tournaments or not, but if you get involved and show an interest, that usually scores you some brownie points. Listen to the owner and figure out the chores he likes least and take them on as your pet projects. Stuff like that will make you a favorite at the lake.

grover777 wrote:

[...] He did not even have the courtesy to call, email etc himself. 

[...]

In my line of work I have a number of customers who are very wealthy.  Many of them conduct most of their business through an intermediary, to save time and also - when necessary - to avoid any possible unpleasantness.  For example, I know the former CEO of Callaway Golf; we speak on the phone occasionally and exchange emails more often, but for most business transactions with him I would be going through his personal assistant.  That's just how it is with a lot of rich, successful people and you can't really blame them for maintaining a layer of insulation from us great unwashed common folk.

The thing is, some guys just can't stand the unpleasantness of disappointing others... even strangers.  In all likelihood your surgeon kept ignoring you, hoping that you'd get the message and go away.  When what he may have seen as "high-pressure" tactics didn't cease maybe he finally realized he needed to shut you down.  His receptionist is paid to do exactly what he had her do in this case - deal directly with people that he doesn't want to.  I'll bet he'd deal with a medical supply salesman or an incessant charity solicitor the same way.

I'm not saying you did anything wrong, and frankly I admire your perseverance.  But ultimately you have no right to expect anything beyond a cursory "No" from this guy anyway.  Perhaps he knows himself to be a bit of a softy and feared that he might give in if he spoke with you directly - heck, for all you know he may have granted access to the college team in a moment of weakness and regrets it to this day...

I empathize completely with your disappointment - it took me a few years and some clever maneuvering to end up with my private site.  But in the fine spirit of hindsight, let me say that it might have been a good idea to investigate this guy a little before submitting in your first request.  For example, there's undoubtedly someone involved with the college ski team who knows the whole story and could have given you background info that might have suggested a different approach.  The more you knew about him in advance the more chance you might have had to pull it off.  Any possibility the college team needs a free assistant coach...?

TW

Last edited by Thomas Wayne (Tue, Jan 19, 2010 3:44 AM)

Thomas Wayne wrote:

That's just how it is with a lot of rich, successful people and you can't really blame them for maintaining a layer of insulation from us great unwashed common folk.

I hope you are kidding. Last time I checked we are all part of the same human race, and as a future doctor, I have to say that not having the decency to personally get in touch with someone is just rude. Everyone deserves the time of day. We are all busy, but if this guy has the time to build a private lake and waterski then I guarantee he has the time to call back a fellow skier to let him know that he's not interested in sharing the fun.

WadeWilliams wrote:

grover777 wrote:

Here is an update: 
"Dr X is not interested in letting you ski the lake."

Dr X? Sounds like a scary doctor. Maybe you should publish his real name and where his practice is so we all know to stay away from said impersonal surgeon who is clearly suffering from rectal cranium disorder.

Yeah I can imagine what his bedside demeanor is like. I wonder if he sends his secretary in to give his patients the results of their tests... Perhaps contacting him at work wasn't the best way to ask if you can use his lake though, assuming it would have been possible to find his home address/phone number.

Aligator wrote:

Thomas Wayne wrote:

That's just how it is with a lot of rich, successful people and you can't really blame them for maintaining a layer of insulation from us great unwashed common folk.

I hope you are kidding. Last time I checked we are all part of the same human race, and as a future doctor, I have to say that not having the decency to personally get in touch with someone is just rude. Everyone deserves the time of day. We are all busy, but if this guy has the time to build a private lake and waterski then I guarantee he has the time to call back a fellow skier to let him know that he's not interested in sharing the fun.

Not kidding at all - though the "...great unwashed common folk" characterization was meant a bit tongue-in-cheek.

I'll bet if this surgeon took the time to personally address every unsolicited request he gets he could probably just forget about his practice.  That's why he has a receptionist, a bookkeeper, physicians assistants, etc.  Forget that he's a specialist (surgeon), when was the last time you called any doctor's office and had the doctor personally answer the phone?  I can virtually guarantee that when you are a successful doctor you won't be answering your office phone personally.

And yes, we're all part of the human race... but I'm pretty sure there are many, many people in this world who aren't going to reply in person to an unsolicited request - under any circumstances.  You can test this theory if you like; here's a phone number for you to call: (202) 456-1414.  Ask to speak with Mr. Obama (if there's more than one Mr. Obama you want "Barack").  Or try this number: (818) 777-5500 - and ask for Ron Meyer (COO of Universal Studios).  Let us know if either of them takes your call...

I've been in the position of trying to get access to a lake controlled by somebody else - more than once.  And I know it's extremely disappointing to be turned down.  But do we really believe that this all would have been a much happier experience if the voicemail had instead been: "Hello, this is Dr X.  I'm not interested in letting you ski on my lake.  Goodbye." ?

TW

Last edited by Thomas Wayne (Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:02 PM)

I agree that a face to face would have been nice and generally speaking the right thing to do. 
Or a first response to the first letter would have been better yet.

I have sent out many letters to land owners asking them about their property, in my quest for property to build a ski lake.  And I would guess that less than 10% respond back.

But what if:  He gets 20 of these inquiries every year, he gets fishermen asking to fish the lake, willing to stock it.  he gets hunters asking to duck hunt, Wakeboarders wanting to wakeboard, and skiers wanting to ski.  I am sure at some point that would get tiring, directly confronting a sales pitch that you didn't invite. 

How many lake owners have houses on them and are only for the home owners, or they have a club and it is for club members only. Or it is used for a ski school and paying visitors only.
either way the owner(s) decide on the lakes usage and rules.

Maybe he is a jerk maybe he isn't, we don't know!  Maybe he likes his lake just the way it is.
That doesn't make him a bad person, or a bad doctor with a bad bedside manner.
It just makes him somebody with something we would like to have.

Todd

MJordan wrote:

Maybe the buoys move????

I can understand how some folks could get annoyed with a continuous stream of folks wanting to recreationalize their property, but in grover's case, the guy has a slalom course in his lake already... sort of on topic with the rest of the 'is waterskiing dying' and 'grow the sport' posts, I'm not sure what Doc X thinks he's doing having his secretary call skiers back and tell them he's not interested in dealing with them.

One thing we are forgetting here is that as I understand it this was not a "ski lake", just a lake that is big enough to ski on?  Right.  Dr X may not even ski.  Who knows how he granted access to the college team....maybe he has a son or daughter who was somehow involved in the college ski team and so there it is??  Bottom line is it is his property, and he has ALOT of things to consider before letting anyone ski there.  Most importantly for someone who makes as much as he makes is LIABILITY.  I think that just as you are accusing him of being impersonal, he may feel the same about you?  I think a personal visit initially to his house or office may have gone further than a letter asking permission.  I own a ski lake in Arkansas, and I can tell you I would never allow anyone to ski there without knowing them first.  I also require them to sign a release of liability before skiing there.  That said I can say that I have never turned anyone away that knocked on my door asking to ski WITH ME.  I have had to chase off kids on jet skis, fishing boats "testing out" their engines , and some dude on a kayak..lol.  If you still wish to get to ski there at this point I would suggest trying to meet and ski with some of the kids from the ski team.  If this is possible it may be your way in to meet face to face with the doctor.  After meeting you and hopefully seeing that you are a responsible, adult who knows what he is doing on a course and lake, he may change his mind.  Of course that is assuming you are a responsible adult who knows what he is doing ...LOL. (just teasing)

Hopefully this will help you.  And BTW I couldnt agree more with TW ...  I would like to see Aligator a few yrs after he is in practice and see if he still feels the same.  I think he will have his receptionist fielding MANY such calls.