Does strength help? / Pro Ski Coach Water Ski Forum

JP · #1 Thu, Jan 8, 2009 9:32 PM

I was listening to the podcast posted on here about the Nick Parson's interview and this was one of the questions asked and i have been thinking about it.

What is everybody's take on this?

Personally I think that Strength is not what makes you ski better but what gets you out of trouble. I find that when I have a bad turn or get pulled out of shape, strength is key to recovery but when I am skiing good that stregth is not as important. Please feel free to share!

WadeWilliams · #2 Thu, Jan 8, 2009 10:54 PM

I know Nick said he does agility training. In my experience the stronger you are physically the better you feel skiing. (with the caveat that as your body weight increases your buoy count does not necessarily). Thin & Ripped! strength is what lets you keep skiing out of that bad turn for sure. As soon as you make an error, the stronger you are the faster you'll recover. The lighter you are, the more you increase your strength to weight ratio (to some degree).

h20dawg79 · #3 Fri, Jan 9, 2009 3:17 PM

*** STRENGTH *** def; 1. Ability to carry out an action by the body; capability of exertion. 2. resistance; endurance. 3. power. 4. intensity; depth; forcefulness... (Websters)

Not trying to go all "analystic'o/critique'o" on ya! (God knows, we already have enough of 'em!) But, IMO one must 1st define "strength" as it pertains to that individuals objective and/or purpose. As opposed to one's mere perception of the word...
The Willow tree and especially the palm tree show exceptional strength during high winds. The "Mighty Oak tree" is obviously another great example of strength. But, the "Mighty Oak" fails miserably in high winds... (lacking flexability)
"Shaq" or Albert Hanesworth are unquestionably VERY strong, flexible and agile individuals. But, for slalom purposes the women have certainly showed us and continue to show us that Raw, brute, manly man force is not the answer...

I have to side with Wade; "Thin & Ripped" is a great start, followed by as much FLEXIBILITY and AGILITY training as one can stomach! Genetically, every individual has a "personal and Optimal muscle mass and strength factor" to work with. With the key words being "PERSONAL" and "OPTIMAL" or optimum. Anything "more or less" = LESS!!! I think wrestling, (not WWF!) and the martial arts both exploit the neccessity for leverage. Pound for pound, Leverage (technique) is surely the weakest link for most men (like myself) who continue to fight the boat (with their "strength") instead of properly using it's momentum and power to their advantage with more efficiency by using better leveraging techniques like the women. (who are generally also A LOT more FLEXIBLE and AGILE than their "Cromagnon" counter parts!) Even a sail boat can actually traverse (move forward against) a head wind...

Good/Optimum "muscle" strength helps to achieve (or is sometimes the by product of...) cardio vascular health, mental health, healthy sleep paterns, hormones and sex drive as well as maintaining and increasing bone density, etc, etc... So, again, IMO "STRENGTH" is VERY IMPORTANT. But, 1st one must define the type of "strength" as it pertains to his/her perticular objective and/or purpose...

*** AGILITY*** def; 1. Liveliness; ease and grace of movement; Nimbleness... (Websters)

P.S. I hope this makes some sense to someone out there. As, my "STRENGTH" is in words, but my weakness is in trying to make sense of the words!!!

Last edited by h20dawg79 (Sat, Jan 10, 2009 12:52 AM)

2gofaster · #4 Fri, Jan 9, 2009 8:59 PM

I think that people confuse "strength" and core strength. In skiing I'd say that core strength is much more important than overall strength. It doesn't matter how strong your biceps, triceps, quads, etc are........if you have a weak core, your appendage strength will never be able to make up for it on a slalom ski.

tjo · #5 Fri, Jan 9, 2009 9:36 PM

How can strength not be important? I agree with what has been said about core strenght and agility. However, I think it is more important than some people are saying.

For me at least, it not only helps me recover from a bad turn, but it also helps delay fatigue for subsequent passes.

Part of my exercise routine is to lift weights year round. Not for the purpose of bulking up, but for the purpose of staying strong so that I can participate in the funner activities in life, such as waterskiing. And of course it delays the aging process

h20dawg79 · #6 Sat, Jan 10, 2009 2:22 AM

Is it possible that we are actually all on the same page here???

Strength sure beats the alternative -weakness... But, we are all "defining" it's basis differently...

As far as "Thin & Ripped" goes, I think you could be thin and weak. But, I dont think you could be "Ripped" and weak. Getting and staying Ripped takes a helluva lot of work... i.e. strength & conditioning, dieting, blah, blah, work!!!

SHANE, I agree core strength IS paramount! (especially for a balancing act like slalom...) However, imo, I would'nt neccessarly say it is "More" important than overall strength, but absolutely relative to it. Because your overall strength would include and be in direct purportion to your level of core strength... So, if I were to prioritize my strength training, Core is at the top!

TJO, I don't feel anyone has discounted strength. I hope my "chapter" (sorry!) didn't read that way... I agree strength helps in off balance recoveries. But, I have to ask; is it your "Strength" or your "Conditioning" that helps you delay the fatigue for subsequent passes? I am a very avid wgt. lifter and I broke my back in 2001. The Neuro said that he had total confidence in my full recovery due to my physical conditioning. (he didn't tell me I would also lose 1 1/2" in hgt.!!!) Anyway, like I said before; imo, STRENGTH is VERY IMPORTANT! ( defining it, is another story...)

Maybe the answer is ; "ALL THINGS IN MODERATION"...

Last edited by h20dawg79 (Sat, Jan 10, 2009 12:48 PM)

tjo · #7 Sat, Jan 10, 2009 4:15 AM

h2odawg, sorry to hear about the back...that's gotta be difficult to return from. I think you are right...we probably are on the same page. To answer your question, I think conditioning and strength is important to delay the fatigue process.

As I was thinking about this topic more (good topic by the way), I was thinking that hitting the weights is probably more important for those of us that don't have the luxury of skiing multiple times each week. I unfortunately only get out on average 3 times a month from April to October, except for a couple of week long trips to Lake Powell during the summer. So for me, the strength and cardio training is very important so that I can get right back in the bindings after being out for a week or two.

ChrisRossi · #8 Sun, Jan 11, 2009 4:25 PM

Surround strong fundamental technique with a high level of physical fitness and you have the magical balance. For me personally, I like to be 5.5-7% body fat during the season. I like to use other sports as my cross training for fitness and I use the gym for adding muscle. Skiing is a physically demanding sport with plenty of opportunity for injury. By having a good balance of fitness and strength, you may limit injury, thus increasing your water time and potential for success.

h20dawg79 · #9 Mon, Jan 12, 2009 3:41 AM

ChrisRossi wrote:
Surround strong fundamental technique with a high level of physical fitness and you have the magical balance. By having a good balance of fitness and strength, you may limit injury, thus increasing your water time and potential for success.

Very well put Chris! Maybe thats why "you da Pro"!!!
Hey, Anyone got any strong fundamental technique for sale??? I know I'm totally out of balance by at least 2:1 physical strength to slalom technique!!! (alright, I lied its more like my old sea Doo's fuel mix; about 50:1!!!)

JP · #10 Mon, Jan 12, 2009 5:23 PM

h20dawg79 wrote:
ChrisRossi wrote:
Surround strong fundamental technique with a high level of physical fitness and you have the magical balance. By having a good balance of fitness and strength, you may limit injury, thus increasing your water time and potential for success.
Very well put Chris! Maybe thats why "you da Pro"!!!
Hey, Anyone got any strong fundamental technique for sale??? I know I'm totally out of balance by at least 2:1 physical strength to slalom technique!!! (alright, I lied its more like my old sea Doo's fuel mix; about 50:1!!!)

i went To Sams Club the other night and picked some up in bulk pack the other night. Lol

WadeWilliams · #11 Mon, Jan 12, 2009 5:39 PM

For Sale:

Strong Fundamental Technique. Located in Orlando, FL. Available for pickup, February through April - limited availability. May take several days to load.

www.proskicoach.com/contact

JP · #12 Mon, Jan 12, 2009 5:58 PM

WadeWilliams wrote:
For Sale:

Strong Fundamental Technique. Located in Orlando, FL. Available for pickup, February through April - limited availability. May take several days to load.

www.proskicoach.com/contact

any space on your couch wade?

WadeWilliams · #13 Mon, Jan 12, 2009 7:31 PM

We've got a little bit of a hog problem, I can set a tent up for you and you can guard the slalom course on lake 2 if you want...

2gofaster · #14 Mon, Jan 12, 2009 9:11 PM

ChrisRossi wrote:
Surround strong fundamental technique with a high level of physical fitness and you have the magical balance. For me personally, I like to be 5.5-7% body fat during the season. I like to use other sports as my cross training for fitness and I use the gym for adding muscle. Skiing is a physically demanding sport with plenty of opportunity for injury. By having a good balance of fitness and strength, you may limit injury, thus increasing your water time and potential for success.

Chris, 5.5-7% body fat is crazy! lol. I apparently like that extra beer or five during the football games a little too much. hahaha. I can get down to 12% pretty easily. But damnit, any less than that and I'd have to give up EVERYTHING! How do you do it?

JP · #15 Mon, Jan 12, 2009 10:18 PM

WadeWilliams wrote:
We've got a little bit of a hog problem, I can set a tent up for you and you can guard the slalom course on lake 2 if you want...

how about lake one?

h20dawg79 · #16 Mon, Jan 12, 2009 10:35 PM

WadeWilliams wrote:
For Sale:

Strong Fundamental Technique. Located in Orlando, FL. Available for pickup, February through April - limited availability. May take several days to load.

www.proskicoach.com/contact

Wade! you, my friend are a life saver! I realize quanities available are limited to stock on hand. So, I'd like to place an order on "Will Call" for early spring. Weather permitting, I would prefer
a "boat load" of synthetic blend "10w/30 off" (w/Deet if possible!) Oh, and when I was younger I did gain some valuable experience getting loaded. So, I might be able to shave the actual load time down a bit and "Git R Done" in a week end!
Now if I could only find a new set of #3 thru hull muffler bearings... hmmm

Last edited by h20dawg79 (Tue, Jan 13, 2009 1:41 PM)

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Does strength help?

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