I would say that the clarification here would be related to which edge of the ski you are riding.  Additionally we are not talking about a great deal of load when we are talking about from the wakes out.

So, as far as the comment I just made about which edge of the ski you are on:
When you are on the cutting/power edge of the ski, loading too heavily will definitely create downcourse speed after the second wake because you max out and can only lose power and direction from the edge change out,  When you move against the line after the wakes when the ski is rolling out to the carving/turning edge it is maintenance of direction.

I guess when coaches say "Don't overload the line," what we should realy be saying is "to keep moving through the turn in order to limit tension on the line in the approach to the wakes so that we can maintain the tension we DO have all the way out to the apex of the next turn"...in other words spread all of that load out from the apex of one turn to the apex of the next-less for longer,  This is one of things I believe makes Rossi look so fluid and consistent throughout a pass.

Seth
www.waterskitrainer.com

Chris,

Hey. Raising my hand here as a poster responsible for some of the useless chatter on one of the other forums. However, my most recent useless chatter actually had a purpose in that I just though it funny that Wade posted about ski technique now being labeled as "NE Style". I always thought that giving a technique a geographic label like "west coast" (even though I'm from the west coast and have been trying to apply those principles to my own skiing for several years now) or "NE" just tends to promote needless controversy because of the connotation that one area of the country is more cutting edge than the others. Maybe if the label was more descriptive to the technique instead of a region it would be more readily accepted. Whatever - it's not that big of a deal. I was just calling him on it a bit in a silly way. That and the "other" forum is about the most humorless place I've ever been, so I was also just entertaining myself a bit. Selfish, I know. Anyway, I promise to refrain from useless chatter on this forum and try to learn something from you, Wade, and the other posters. BTW - I'm just starting to get this light load thing. 

thanks,
Jim

I have to agree........ Everyone is here to learn and become better without all the drama and bs. I learn something every week from here. Although I'm down in buoy count from last year, I've begun to fix all the things I learned wrong based on the information you guys(Chris, Wade, Seth, etc) give to us. One of the 39 1/2 off skiers I ski with told me the other day that I was finally getting it. That I was finally skiing and not just being drug around behind the boat. So I want to thank all of you and let you know how much I appreciate this site.

Jan wrote;

Quote: "The boat is racing down course, so in my mind, any time I am loading on the rope, I'm moving in the direction of the boat.  More simply put, load on the rope equals down course speed.  By staying off the load, you are able to create more cross course speed and direction"

I really do not understand the logic here.  When we are moving in the same direction as the boat, we have the LEAST amount of load.  As our angle increases away from the path of the boat, our load increases exponentially.  What am I missing?

Schnitz!

Again, the least amount of load is when skiing in the exact same direction as the boat, i.e. in the center of the wakes, tip of the ski pointing at the center rear of the boat.  Any deviation off of this center path increases load.  Yes or no?

Schnitz!

It is physically impossible to deviate from the straight ahead path without increasing load as long as you are holding onto the handle. 

Schnitz!

I am not a slalom guru or an expert in physics however:
Force=mass * acceleration
Skiing right behind the boat, the skier has no acceleration.
Any deviation from skiing straight behind the boat (left or right) will result in acceleration.
The only way to accelerate is to increase load (force) on handle according to the equation.
     This being said, Once the skier crosses the entry gates, the only way to minimize load is to eliminate variances in acceleration.  Keeping a constant speed through the wake and through the turns would completely eliminate load/force  increases.   This is impossible as we cannot turn at the same speed that we cross the wake.   I think Seth said it perfectly earlier :  Spread the load out by maintaining speed through the turn.   Excessive load comes only from massive deceleration.

Again not a guru at all in either discipline but it helps me to prove it through math and physics.

Matt

The consideration that often gets left out of the discussion is drag. (F=MA +Drag.)  A perfect example would be the difference between the force required to accelerate a 50 Kg. box on sand vs. the force required to accelerate the same 50 Kg. box on ice.  The less drag that we throw into the system the more efficient we accelerate with less line tension. When the boat feels the skier heavily load the rope, what it really is feeling is a bunch of drag the skier has just created. Efficient acceleration and minimal drag = light line tension through the course.  Skiing the "Possible Line", not overturning, moving mass forward through the turn, not burying the ski, and being a constant flow of motion seems to be the Rx for efficient technique. As far as  average or min/max speed goes, this will be determined to a large part ski path. Whatever ski path we individually decide to take the common goal should be to ski it as efficient as possible.

Shnitz
Massive angle only results in massive deceleration. Resulting in the skier being pulled down course versus moving cross course.
As I said before, it is impossible to keep the same speed that we have created crossing the wake, however, we need to maintain as much of that speed as possible or our load will end up being increased. 

Matt

wade,thank god i'm stupid and simple cause i got it the first time.

When you are going straight behind the boat, the skier has positive accelleration in the downcourse direction. Yes, if you stand in a super efficient position then this acceleration will be negligible, but it is there.

Without this constant force from the boat you would sink!

If you are claiming that there is no acceleration at this point then:

0f = 72kg * 0 m/s

The only time you have zero force coming through the rope is if you have sufficient momentum to ski without the rope or the boat's pull.

When you're behind the boat The force is MINIMAL but it is there. You dont have a propeller on your ski, you are bypassing friction and gravity and staying on top of the water due to the boat's force.

Increasing force on the handle will get you nothing. The handle is getting pulled down the lake with the boat and the pylon. Forcing the handle anywhere is futile.

Let's try to keep this real simple. 

Wade wrote;

When you are going straight behind the boat, the skier has positive acceleration in the downcourse direction.   

Schnitz - Positive acceleration against what?  The skier is going the exact same speed as the boat with the minimum amount of load.

Wade; Yes, if you stand in a super efficient position then this acceleration will be negligible, but it is there.

Schnitz - "Acceleration" from Winkopedia = "In physics, and more specifically kinematics, acceleration is the change in velocity over time.[1] Because velocity is a vector, it can change in two ways: a change in magnitude and/or a change in direction".  Since the skier is neither speeding up nor changing direction, the skier is not accelerating!

Wade; Without this constant force from the boat you would sink!  If you are claiming that there is no acceleration at this point then:

0f = 72kg * 0 m/s

Schnitz - Acceleration = "In physics, and more specifically kinematics, acceleration is the change in velocity over time.[1] Because velocity is a vector, it can change in two ways: a change in magnitude and/or a change in direction".  Since the skier is neither speeding up nor changing direction, the skier is not accelerating!

Wade; The only time you have zero force coming through the rope is if you have sufficient momentum to ski without the rope or the boat's pull.

When you're behind the boat, the force is MINIMAL but it is there. You don't have a propeller on your ski, you are bypassing friction and gravity and staying on top of the water due to the boat's force.

Increasing force on the handle will get you nothing. The handle is getting pulled down the lake with the boat and the pylon. Forcing the handle anywhere is futile.

Schnitz - None of this explains (nor is relevant) to the question; “Seth said it perfectly earlier:  Spread the load out by maintaining speed through the turn".  Again, how do you maintain speed through the turn?

Schnitz!

Last edited by Schnitz (Mon, May 11, 2009 11:21 PM)