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Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward / Pro Ski Coach Water Ski Forum
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#1 Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:11 PM

BuoyChaser
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Slalom Mentor
From: New Hampshire
Registered: Wed, May 16, 2007
Posts: 216
Skis At: Long Pond, Northwood NH
Foot Forward: LFF

Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

I struggle with keeping my weight forward over the ski and not "riding tail", especially into the turn. On the 66 MPD I find that if I don't get my weight forward I get a "bobble" or hesitation on the ski. When I think about pushing my front toes down on the ski, that seems to help get my weight more forward on the ski.

Chris/Wade - Do you guys ever think about "front toe" pressure? Not being a snowskier, but knuckle dragger, I know how important it is to attack the hill and keep that weight forward to engage front edges of the board when free carving. Makes it feel like BUDDAH!!!

Anyone else feel their "lead foot" toes curling up? I know this sounds wacked, but when I really focus on applying "pressure" to the ball/toes of my foot that seemed to help the last few sets.


2008 MC PS197 with ZO upgrade with 2011 Radar Senate C 67" working to smoke that 36-28 consistently in any tourney.

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#2 Fri, Jun 6, 2008 6:18 AM

ChrisRossi
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From: Orlando
Registered: Tue, May 15, 2007
Posts: 506
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

Scott, I do not feel like I am pressuring (pushing) on my front foot but rather standing over it.  I feel the water breaking under that foot especially into the off-side.  What are your settings:
binding location
depth
length with tips
dft
wing

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#3 Sun, Jun 8, 2008 8:22 PM

BuoyChaser
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Slalom Mentor
From: New Hampshire
Registered: Wed, May 16, 2007
Posts: 216
Skis At: Long Pond, Northwood NH
Foot Forward: LFF

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

Chris - I'm still struggling to feel the "standing over it" as well as "feel the water break under that foot". Boy I don't know how I would even think of feeling that water breaking?!?

Anyways, here are my measurements which appear to have changed, unless your article is making me measure for proficiently!!! smile So should I reset them back to where it started and give it a go?!?

All I've adjusted since the Purity Springs tourney last fall is to take the wing angle from 9deg to 7deg.

CURRENT 06/06/08
Binding Location: Front 28.625" Rear 16.625" (Measured to back of red outside of fogmans)
Depth: 2.523"
Length: 6.917" (tips)
DFT: .738"
WING: 7
FLE-TAIL: 8.093"

My log previously shows the following measurements with same caliper on 09/02/07 after receiving the ski from Ian I got the following measurements
Binding Location: Front 28.625" Rear 16.625" (Measured to back of red outside of fogmans)
Depth: 2.51"
Length: 6.846" (tips)
DFT: .760"
WING: 8.5

When buying the 66" MPD from Ian had the following Flex #'s 66.5/102/125/156 which he said he had the following numbers pre-set:
Binding Location: Front 28.625" Rear 16.625" (Measured to back of red outside of fogmans)
Depth: 2.508"
Length: 6.851" (he called it ends)
DFT: .758"
WING: 9


2008 MC PS197 with ZO upgrade with 2011 Radar Senate C 67" working to smoke that 36-28 consistently in any tourney.

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#4 Sun, Jun 8, 2008 8:30 PM

BuoyChaser
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Slalom Mentor
From: New Hampshire
Registered: Wed, May 16, 2007
Posts: 216
Skis At: Long Pond, Northwood NH
Foot Forward: LFF

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

BTW I'm 5'10" 185lbs, water temp is 70deg (surface boat temp) and been running in glass conditions 4 back-to-back 34-22 last two days. Then one today in rougher conditions. But just not getting free of the boat when bumping up to 36-22. Like the ski isn't hooking up for me. Trying to really "stand" on the ski at the turn.


2008 MC PS197 with ZO upgrade with 2011 Radar Senate C 67" working to smoke that 36-28 consistently in any tourney.

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#5 Mon, Jun 9, 2008 4:10 AM

BuoyChaser
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Slalom Mentor
From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 216
Skis At: Long Pond, Northwood NH
Foot Forward: LFF

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

New settings, closest I could get to your Austria settings Chris:
Wing: 9
Depth: 2.514
Length: 6.851
DFT: .760
LETS: 8.043
Bindings: same


2008 MC PS197 with ZO upgrade with 2011 Radar Senate C 67" working to smoke that 36-28 consistently in any tourney.

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#6 Mon, Jun 9, 2008 10:19 AM

BuoyChaser
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Slalom Mentor
From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 216
Skis At: Long Pond, Northwood NH
Foot Forward: LFF

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

BuoyChaser wrote:

New settings, closest I could get to your Austria settings Chris:
Wing: 9
Depth: 2.514
Length: 6.851
DFT: .760
LETS: 8.043
Bindings: same

These settings felt better this morning, still some "bobble" coming out of 1 (34-22) and getting 2 around. Could be bad body position?


2008 MC PS197 with ZO upgrade with 2011 Radar Senate C 67" working to smoke that 36-28 consistently in any tourney.

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#7 Mon, Jun 9, 2008 7:33 PM

alex38
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Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

Hey Scott, I'm on 66" MPD as well! But I only ski 34. I've been "dialing" myself in, so if theres anything we can help each other with lemme know. This ski has an amazing turn finish...stable, fast, just when I feel like I'm losing my turn-it's right there under my feet, and behind the boat in the load is ridiculous, still getting used to that much angle.

-Alex

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#8 Sat, Jun 14, 2008 2:36 PM

GaryBerthelsen
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From: Lincoln.ne.us
Registered: Sun, Aug 5, 2007
Posts: 26
Foot Forward: LFF

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

I thought I might just add this.  I never bothered with adjusting the fin, fore, aft, deeper, or shallower.  That is, not until 38' off at 36mph.

It might be worthwhile to keep in mind that fin adjustments at 15', 22', or 28' off might not be the solution.  The solution might be in establishing the correct pulling position.  Best off forgetting micro adjustments until 11.25 metres.  Forget all that touchy feely fin adjustment stuff until things get serious.

That's one school of thought, and it worked just fine for me.

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#9 Sun, Jun 15, 2008 5:30 AM

JP
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Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

[RAGE]Riddick51PB wrote:

I thought I might just add this.  I never bothered with adjusting the fin, fore, aft, deeper, or shallower.  That is, not until 38' off at 36mph.

It might be worthwhile to keep in mind that fin adjustments at 15', 22', or 28' off might not be the solution.  The solution might be in establishing the correct pulling position.  Best off forgetting micro adjustments until 11.25 metres.  Forget all that touchy feely fin adjustment stuff until things get serious.

That's one school of thought, and it worked just fine for me.

AMEN!

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#10 Sun, Jun 15, 2008 5:39 AM

BuoyChaser
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Slalom Mentor
From: New Hampshire
Registered: Wed, May 16, 2007
Posts: 216
Skis At: Long Pond, Northwood NH
Foot Forward: LFF

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

I agree, but you've got to at least get the fin setup the first time with the right settings and keep it there.


2008 MC PS197 with ZO upgrade with 2011 Radar Senate C 67" working to smoke that 36-28 consistently in any tourney.

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#11 Sun, Jun 15, 2008 6:29 PM

ChrisRossi
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From: Orlando
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Posts: 506
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

Scott,
     Are you running the gold fin or black fin?

28 5/8
16 5/8
2.505
6.851
0.753
9 degrees

This is where I would start.  At the line lengths you are running, I don't think you need to be as deep as you have been.  That prevents the ski from rolling over and makes it feel very stuck and wanting to run really straight.  These measurements should be a good base.  Let me know about the fin and let me know how it feels when you ski.

Chris

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#12 Sun, Jun 15, 2008 6:38 PM

BuoyChaser
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Slalom Mentor
From: New Hampshire
Registered: Wed, May 16, 2007
Posts: 216
Skis At: Long Pond, Northwood NH
Foot Forward: LFF

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

Black fin, will def'n get camera going soon!!! Dube's on Saturday, bring it on. Thanks for base settings.


2008 MC PS197 with ZO upgrade with 2011 Radar Senate C 67" working to smoke that 36-28 consistently in any tourney.

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#13 Tue, Jul 1, 2008 4:48 AM

BuoyChaser
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Slalom Mentor
From: New Hampshire
Registered: Wed, May 16, 2007
Posts: 216
Skis At: Long Pond, Northwood NH
Foot Forward: LFF

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

Chris - Still haven't gotten the camera hooked up, guess 'lil Louisa (16mos now) has been keeping our hands full.

Anyways, yes, watching some camera pics I'm definitely going into turn with my back shoulder forward and arm flailing in the wind. When I remember I try to concentrate on stretching my rear elbow back which certainly helps. Seems to be the only way to correct my issue of the bobble, thrown forward, break at the waste, unable to recover out of the turn.

Any other tips to keep that shoulder back? The ski turns so nice when I'm thinking about this.

The other issue I've got as I get tired I tend to ride the tail of the ski, especially past 3 ball or if I take a hard hit at 1 or 2.


2008 MC PS197 with ZO upgrade with 2011 Radar Senate C 67" working to smoke that 36-28 consistently in any tourney.

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#14 Wed, Jul 2, 2008 5:28 AM

ChrisRossi
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Pro Skier
From: Orlando
Registered: Tue, May 15, 2007
Posts: 506
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

Scott,
     I would start by always hooking the outside hand on light after each turn especially out of 1, 3, 5.  This slows the turn down a little allowing the body to be more balanced.  Next, concern yourself more with the thought of leaning away from the rope rather than pulling against the boat.  The reason your outside shoulder is forward going into 2, 4 is because you have loaded WAY too hard from one to two ball.  Instead of trying to get early, finish that smooth turn with the light right hand grip out of one, feel yourself get a nice lean away from the handle, and just go where the ski takes you.  When you are leaning away from the rope, it is best to not focus on pushing on your ski, but rather how light you can be on your ski.  Where your body is in relation to the ski edge is what determines angle, NOT how hard you push that edge into the water!

Chris

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#15 Wed, Jul 2, 2008 6:56 AM

BuoyChaser
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Slalom Mentor
From: New Hampshire
Registered: Wed, May 16, 2007
Posts: 216
Skis At: Long Pond, Northwood NH
Foot Forward: LFF

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

ChrisRossi wrote:

Scott,
     I would start by always hooking the outside hand on light after each turn especially out of 1, 3, 5.  This slows the turn down a little allowing the body to be more balanced.  Next, concern yourself more with the thought of leaning away from the rope rather than pulling against the boat.  The reason your outside shoulder is forward going into 2, 4 is because you have loaded WAY too hard from one to two ball.  Instead of trying to get early, finish that smooth turn with the light right hand grip out of one, feel yourself get a nice lean away from the handle, and just go where the ski takes you.  When you are leaning away from the rope, it is best to not focus on pushing on your ski, but rather how light you can be on your ski.  Where your body is in relation to the ski edge is what determines angle, NOT how hard you push that edge into the water!

Chris

Chris - GREAT STUFF, can't wait to try it out tonight. Makes a lot of sense and that would explain why even with a great gate into 1 ball at 36-22 the boat wins every time. THANK YOU!!! - Scott


2008 MC PS197 with ZO upgrade with 2011 Radar Senate C 67" working to smoke that 36-28 consistently in any tourney.

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#16 Thu, Jul 3, 2008 5:20 AM

BuoyChaser
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Slalom Mentor
From: New Hampshire
Registered: Wed, May 16, 2007
Posts: 216
Skis At: Long Pond, Northwood NH
Foot Forward: LFF

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

Rossi - All I've got to say, my first full 36-22 pass this season then 3 at 36-28, OH MAN, you're a GOD!!! Going to make for a good 4th. Now I can work on my 28 gates.  wink - Scott


2008 MC PS197 with ZO upgrade with 2011 Radar Senate C 67" working to smoke that 36-28 consistently in any tourney.

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#17 Thu, Jul 3, 2008 6:18 AM

ChrisRossi
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From: Orlando
Registered: Tue, May 15, 2007
Posts: 506
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Front Foot (Toe) Pressure into Turn - Keeping Weight Forward

Glad to be of help young jedi!

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