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#1 Fri, Jul 4, 2008 9:25 AM

slalomdude
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Registered: Fri, Dec 14, 2007
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Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

I tend to stay over the top of the ski inthe preturn and dont allow it to arc a smooth turn. The ski never really releases into a good edge change. As a result, I end up trying to turn the ski,but as a result get slack off the ball. Any tips to help me cast the ski out. Thanks

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#2 Sat, Jul 5, 2008 7:54 AM

ChrisRossi
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Registered: Tue, May 15, 2007
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

Sounds like to me that you are holding to much load with the upper body coming into the wakes.  This causes the skier to get locked up.  Once locked up, un-natural skiing movements are used to break free.  The most common of these is bicep pull through the edge change.  This does not cast the ski out, it pulls the upper body up and over the ski edge.  Basically, the body gets pulled over the ski instead of the ski exploding out beyond the skier.  I would suggest not worrying about how much angle you are taking into the wakes and also, not worrying about getting the ski to cast out as these two thoughts ARE the main cause for the above mentioned issues.  Instead, focus on being light on your ski out of the buoy and lean away from the handle all the way through the second wake.  Load in this area causes your ski to flatten and lose direction, so by focusing on leaning away from the handle, you will actually have your ski rolled up on a higher edge angle longer, thus setting up a great edge change.
     Hope this helps.

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#3 Sat, Jul 5, 2008 11:28 AM

JSKIER
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

ChrisRossi wrote:

Sounds like to me that you are holding to much load with the upper body coming into the wakes.  This causes the skier to get locked up.  Once locked up, un-natural skiing movements are used to break free.  The most common of these is bicep pull through the edge change.  This does not cast the ski out, it pulls the upper body up and over the ski edge.  Basically, the body gets pulled over the ski instead of the ski exploding out beyond the skier.  I would suggest not worrying about how much angle you are taking into the wakes and also, not worrying about getting the ski to cast out as these two thoughts ARE the main cause for the above mentioned issues.  Instead, focus on being light on your ski out of the buoy and lean away from the handle all the way through the second wake.  Load in this area causes your ski to flatten and lose direction, so by focusing on leaning away from the handle, you will actually have your ski rolled up on a higher edge angle longer, thus setting up a great edge change.
     Hope this helps.

Chris- What do you mean by "leaning away from the handle"?  won't this create more load?  or is it lean as in lower body lean away?  I see how that would put more edge in the water....

thanks!

J

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#4 Sat, Jul 5, 2008 1:11 PM

slalomdude
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

Chris,
Thanks. I have read most of your articles on being light on the line. I have spent the afternoon watching Slash and studying your passes near the end of the movie. It looks like you are really getting on it thru the wakes. Maybe I am just plain dumb, but I dont think I grasp the concept. As I hook up, I try to get my hips up and keep them there, but it seems like a fight. If I dont put in maximum effort, I get pulled up by the boat.I definately loose my hips in the preturn, causing the ski to stay under me. I ski at 34, occasionaly run 32 but I know I need to maybe take a step back to improve my basics. I appreciate you taking the time for hackers like me.!!

Last edited by slalomdude (Sat, Jul 5, 2008 1:27 PM)

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#5 Sat, Jul 5, 2008 4:15 PM

ChrisRossi
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

Slalomdude,
     I think that you are trying way to hard to ski a line that you can't possibly ski.  If you are trying to get your hips up out of the turn, you are trying to flatten your ski at the end of the turn.  A flat ski wants to go straight down the lake.  Because of this, you have to put in maximum effort to not get all direction taken from you. 
     When you finish the turn, lightly hook your outside hand on (no over-gripping) and let the handle fall low and way from your upper body.  You should feel like you are simply leaning away from the handle, not trying to get angle.  The more you lean, the more edge angle is created.  The more you pull, the more your upper body is raised, thus lowering edge angle and direction.  You must commit to this full hardedly and learn to trust it.  Start with easy and build your trust up.
     
Chris

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#6 Mon, Jul 7, 2008 1:43 PM

BuoyChaser
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Posts: 216
Skis At: Long Pond, Northwood NH
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

ChrisRossi wrote:

Slalomdude,
     I think that you are trying way to hard to ski a line that you can't possibly ski.  If you are trying to get your hips up out of the turn, you are trying to flatten your ski at the end of the turn.  A flat ski wants to go straight down the lake.  Because of this, you have to put in maximum effort to not get all direction taken from you. 
     When you finish the turn, lightly hook your outside hand on (no over-gripping) and let the handle fall low and way from your upper body.  You should feel like you are simply leaning away from the handle, not trying to get angle.  The more you lean, the more edge angle is created.  The more you pull, the more your upper body is raised, thus lowering edge angle and direction.  You must commit to this full hardedly and learn to trust it.  Start with easy and build your trust up.
     
Chris

TRUST IS KEY, when it works, FEELS SO GOOD!!! All the girls will be bummin' that by doing this we're losin' our killer BICEPS!!!


2008 MC PS197 with ZO upgrade with 2011 Radar Senate C 67" working to smoke that 36-28 consistently in any tourney.

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#7 Sat, Jul 12, 2008 12:17 PM

slalomdude
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

Chris, can you explain a bit more about how pushing up the hips after the turn causes the ski to flatten .
Thanks

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#8 Sun, Jul 13, 2008 5:58 AM

JP
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

slalomdude wrote:

Chris, can you explain a bit more about how pushing up the hips after the turn causes the ski to flatten .
Thanks

I had this problem earlier in the year. What ended up helping me was almost thinking about squeezing with my core to ride the ski outbound

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#9 Sun, Jul 13, 2008 3:46 PM

ChrisRossi
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

The more vertical to the water your hips are, the flatter you ski has to be.  Conversely, the lower your butt is to the surface of the water, the more edge angle is achieved.  When envisioning this, take knee bend out of the equation.

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#10 Mon, Jul 14, 2008 11:16 PM

crdickey
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

ChrisRossi wrote:

Slalomdude,
          When you finish the turn, lightly hook your outside hand on (no over-gripping) and let the handle fall low and way from your upper body.  You should feel like you are simply leaning away from the handle, not trying to get angle.  The more you lean, the more edge angle is created.  The more you pull, the more your upper body is raised, thus lowering edge angle and direction.  You must commit to this full hardedly and learn to trust it.  Start with easy and build your trust up.
     
Chris

Chris,

Where is the handle as you are describing this tip, on your thigh, close to the knee?   Love to come back for a one on one, but it's not in the cards this year. Any chance you have a picture of yourself or another Pro doing what you are trying to teach us ?

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#11 Tue, Jul 15, 2008 5:17 AM

ChrisRossi
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

The handle would look like it was half way down your thigh.  A better way to think about it would be to fall away from the handle while feeling the handle slide down your thigh.

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#12 Tue, Jul 15, 2008 8:13 PM

Jhughes
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Skis At: Lake County, IL
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

Chris, I just wanted to mention that I focused solely on "trusting the lean" on my off side wake cross during my set today and it made a night and day difference. Fully committing and trusting that straight-arm lean from  wake to wake behind the boat is an awesome tip. Thanks. For some reason that wording set up the perfect visual for me.

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#13 Wed, Jul 16, 2008 6:41 AM

ChrisRossi
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

Great to hear.  More skiers need to focus on this topic while skiing for sure.  I find myself continually going back to this thought in my own skiing.

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#14 Thu, Jul 17, 2008 8:51 PM

chopper
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

Chris, how do you get your butt lower to the water without it falling back?

Last edited by chopper (Thu, Jul 17, 2008 8:52 PM)

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#15 Fri, Aug 22, 2008 4:55 AM

sivi
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Registered: Fri, Aug 8, 2008
Posts: 1

Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

Chris: In your interesting article "Skiing the impossible line" yuor message is (I think) to avoid load as long as possible behind the boat because this results in an edge change. Yet, inte article from 2002 "Cutt me some slack" you stress that it is important to load "the bottom quarter of the downswing" with maximum load at the first wake and an edge change between the wakes. So I am a little confused. Should I load or not? Where should the edge change take place? I have difficulties at 18 m and 52 km/h. I tend to get narrow with lots of slack.
Hi from
Sigurd

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#16 Fri, Aug 22, 2008 5:09 AM

WadeWilliams
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From: Lynn, MA
Registered: Tue, May 15, 2007
Posts: 1087
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Re: Allowing the ski to arc out in the turn

we are skiing better in 2008 than 2002. Stick with the latest theory.

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