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#1 Sun, Oct 17, 2010 7:25 AM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Water filled Buoys -Help!

Need info. regarding water filled Buoy's!

The list of Pro's for the Water filled Buoy's seems Sufficient. But, are there any Con's to filling them?

*Does the wind displace the course or the Buoy's any easier?

*Is Maint. any more of an issue?

*Are there any considerations with regard to the existing set up? i.e. sub buoy changes, etc...?

*Any FYI's would be great!

Thanx for any help! smile


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#2 Sun, Oct 17, 2010 8:25 AM

Digger
Karma:   
Regular
From: Lakewood WA
Registered: Mon, Mar 23, 2009
Posts: 29
Skis At: Steilacoom Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Water filled Buoys -Help!

Hey dawg - I can give you my .02 worth:

Public lake with a course - is in and used all year round - PVC arms out from single stainless main cable with engine block anchors at each end with no sub buoys used.

Before partial water filled the height of the balls were hard to control, most balls were either underinflated to not float to high or had too much ball above the water and a little scary for the skier. We lost a good amount of balls each year to yahoooooos.

After half filling with water, the balls were MUCH easier to control as to how much of the ball was above the water line, able to keep them at or near 1/3 out which was much safer for the skier. Deflection from a ski hit usually did not cause a yard sale, we now loose very FEW balls during the year from the yahoooooos which is easier on the pocket book, and the nerves. We don't really notice any problem from wind, if it is windy enough to move the balls around, we're probably not skiing the course.

Private ski lake with seperate anchors for each ball could face different challenges so can't really comment there, they have worked extremely well for us on our course.


Ski hard or save the gas

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#3 Sun, Oct 17, 2010 10:40 AM

BudMan
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
From: Sandy Run, SC (Near Columbia)
Registered: Tue, Nov 24, 2009
Posts: 126
Skis At: Bud Lake
Foot Forward: Left

Re: Water filled Buoys -Help!

I filled all ten this year and have not found any cons.


Life is great! Enjoy every minute!

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#4 Sun, Oct 17, 2010 10:41 AM

BrianM
Karma:   
Regular
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Mon, May 18, 2009
Posts: 35
Skis At: the cottage
Foot Forward: Right
Website

Re: Water filled Buoys -Help!

Don't want to hijack this thread, but Digger, how do you connect and disconnect the engine block anchors to the course in spring and fall.  I have a portable course and have just been using the river anchors but would like to put in permanent anchors in at each end so the course ends up in the same spot all the time.
I just haven't figured out a good way to connect/disconnect and then tension the course.

Any thoughts or input greatly appreciated.  Once I get the course set, then I want to play with filling the buoys with water too.!

Brian

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#5 Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:29 PM

Digger
Karma:   
Regular
From: Lakewood WA
Registered: Mon, Mar 23, 2009
Posts: 29
Skis At: Steilacoom Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Water filled Buoys -Help!

Brian - we don't, we ski all year and the course has never been removed, at least the 12 years I've been here. Can you leave the course in and just remove the buoys? Attach some noodles to the lines to see them in the spring each year when you reattach the buoys.


Ski hard or save the gas

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#6 Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:43 PM

Skiboy
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
From: Bobcaygeon Ontario Canada
Registered: Fri, Mar 7, 2008
Posts: 143
Skis At: Pigeon Lake @ Ski Tek
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Water filled Buoys -Help!

thats what i do , course has been in 8 years, just reattach lines in spring on bungy cords, sometimes u need to tighten them , but other wise no probs.


Skiing Finatic Once Again

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#7 Sun, Oct 17, 2010 7:04 PM

Thomas Wayne
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sun, Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 228

Re: Water filled Buoys -Help!

h20dawg79 wrote:

Need info. regarding water filled Buoy's!

The list of Pro's for the Water filled Buoy's seems Sufficient. But, are there any Con's to filling them?

*Does the wind displace the course or the Buoy's any easier?

*Is Maint. any more of an issue?

*Are there any considerations with regard to the existing set up? i.e. sub buoy changes, etc...?

*Any FYI's would be great!

Thanx for any help! smile

I've been an advocate of filling skier balls ~ 40% with water for many years, and have dealt with just about all the issues one could expect from a floating course and/or a fixed course  - since I have both kinds on my lake.

1) Any external force can displace "water-filled" buoys more easily than all-air buoys.  That's what makes them safer - they displace easily when you ski over the top of them.  However, as a skier you only really care that the buoy mostly displaces downward (and sideways a bit).  So you can keep them from displacing too easily in the wind by having sub-buoys that are under a good amount of tension, followed by a fairly short tether up to the safety buoy.

2) Replace  (or paint them ) when they fade.  The water can freeze inside over the winter with no negative results.

3) If you're using a floating course you may have to use a little less water so that they are buoyant enough to support the arm.  Any supplemental flotation you add below the surface - foam noodles zip-tied to arms, for example - should not be able to float the arm on its own; you still want some tension on the buoys themselves.

TW

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#8 Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:19 AM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: Water filled Buoys -Help!

Thanx TW!

With all the upside of Safety aside, and on a Public course, will a light enough wind (Breeze) that you would likely still be out skiing in have any Neg. effect on the buoys placement? -or will it be any issue or concern?

Thanx!smile


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#9 Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:35 AM

Thomas Wayne
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Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sun, Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 228

Re: Water filled Buoys -Help!

In our experience, if the buoy lines are all the same length and buoyancy is relatively similar for all the arms any minor wind will affect all the buoys pretty much the same - keeping the course basically symmetrical.   In a decade of using them on our floating course (in all kinds of weather) we've never noticed a wind displacement that affected our skiing in any way.  It is, after all,  just practice.... right?

You might also want to remember that according to AWSA rules the total allowable error for buoy position is almost a foot (!) in the lengthwise direction and about 9 inches in width (for each buoy).  If the wind at your site is changing  the buoy position more than that you may have problems beyond the scope of whether or not there's water in your buoys...

TW

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#10 Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:46 AM

Deke
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
From: Telluride, CO
Registered: Thu, Apr 3, 2008
Posts: 126
Skis At: 15/34
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Water filled Buoys -Help!

h20dawg79 wrote:

Thanx TW!

With all the upside of Safety aside, and on a Public course, will a light enough wind (Breeze) that you would likely still be out skiing in have any Neg. effect on the buoys placement? -or will it be any issue or concern?

Thanx!smile

We use water filled buoys on our floating public lake course with no problems.  I've actually noticed that the wind has less effect in terms of course alignment in our case...   ...and we have wind all the time.

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#11 Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:56 PM

EdJohnson
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Slasher
Registered: Fri, May 8, 2009
Posts: 56

Re: Water filled Buoys -Help!

There is one very important point we found out in the two years we used H20 Buoys on our course here in Orlando. It is imperative that they are tightly tethered. If the water level goes down slightly the air filled buoys will ride high and it is obvious they need to be tightened down. This is not the case with the water buoys. They ride low in the water all the time and you have to visually inspect them to make sure the line is tight. We had two people hurt after hitting, what we found out, was a loose H20 buoy. One of them was me, and I bounced off that thing like hitting a brick. I had hit the water buoys before to no avail but this time was different. After inspecting the guilty buoy I found out it was the one buoy in our course that had a loose line. It just does not rebound the same with a loose line as it does with a tight one. This was the hardest buoy hit I have ever taken. Actually, it was so violent, it shattered the Powershell Plate as it released. As I said, it is deceptive to the eye, since they float at the same height loose or tight.
I have since replaced them with the Goode Bubble Buoys and feel it was the best decision ever.

Ski Well,   ED

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#12 Tue, Oct 19, 2010 5:01 AM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: Water filled Buoys -Help!

My thanx to all you Guy's for your Your time and info!cool

Greatly appreciated...


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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