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Moved to hard shells / Pro Ski Coach Water Ski Forum
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#1 Mon, Oct 11, 2010 6:47 PM

2gofaster
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From: Cypress, Tx
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Posts: 337

Moved to hard shells

I mentioned it in another thread and it was suggested I make a seperate thread. So here goes. I've been skiing on RS1/Strada bindings for the last 3 seasons.  I got a smoking deal on a set of Goode Powershell 5's(only had 3 sets on em), so I decided to give em a try.  Not that I was unhappy with the Strada's. But after 3 years I wanted to try something new. Our last tournament was Saturday, so Saturday night I mounted em up. To get the ankle to ankle spacing I wanted(12"), I chopped 1" off the toe of the back shell. That allowed me to get them to 12 1/4" pretty easily. I should have measured the distance from my front ankle bone to the rear of the ski in the Stradas but didn't think about that until later. So where I put them on the ski was kind of a guess.  I skied on em for the first time yesterday.  WOW, What a difference from the radar's! When I went from rubber bindings to the RS1's, it took a couple of passes to get acquainted with them. But on the PS5's, I pulled out and went to turn in for the gate and went straight at 2. Didn't even come close to turning for the gates! LOL. So I made 7 passes down the lake before I made it past 2 ball and then had to free ski. LOL. For the 2nd set I moved them forward 1/8 inch. This was better, I ran 15 off twice, 22 off twice, and one of the better 28s I've ever run before getting 5 at 32 off.  3rd set I moved em forward another 1/16 inch. Went out at 22off and ran four 22s, two 28s, and two 32s.  What I started to find is that on the real hard shells, I actually had to ski.  I had to counter-rotate from the ankles up, ski my outside hip back to the handle, use my vision correctly, etc. When I did, I was rewarded. When I did not, I would get stood up on the backside of the buoy.  Which makes sense. If the hard shells feed your body motion into the ski to create inclination on the ski, then they also do the reverse, they feed ski motion into your body.  Skiing again on Wednesday. I think I'll move them forward another 1/16 and give it a go.


Shane Hill

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#2 Tue, Oct 12, 2010 6:16 AM

frank
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Re: Moved to hard shells

Shane, Besides wanting to try something new was there any other reason to switch? I, too have been on RS1/strada bindings for 3 seasons and really like them. I have an arthritic rear ankle and have thought about true hardshells from time to time, hoping to perhaps transfer some of the forces away from the ankle. I never got around to trying hardshells cause the $ and the RS1/Stradas are just so comfortable. Any insight would be appreciated.

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#3 Tue, Oct 12, 2010 7:03 AM

HO410
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Re: Moved to hard shells

Do you feel that the chief benefit of the Powershells is that they will not hide the flaws in your technique? I'm just thinking of Scott Jones, and he said that he didn't feel that he lost anything moving from Powershells to Stradas. Also, after making the switch he did ski a set on his old hardshells and decided to stick with the Radar boots.

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#4 Tue, Oct 12, 2010 10:02 AM

2gofaster
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Re: Moved to hard shells

HO, For me, that is a big reason. I'm at the point where I think I'd like something that makes me need to ski more technically. Scott on the other hand, is already a very technical skier capable of deep 39 and into 41 on occasion.  Plus, he broke his ankle on that one set back on his hard shells. For him, that was a big inducement to stay in his Stradas after he healed. I may go back to the Stradas, but now is the time to experiment. 

Frank, I paid $325 and they only had 3 sets on them.  That made it an easy decision to try them out because I knew if I didn't like them, I could get my money back out of them.


Shane Hill

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#5 Tue, Oct 12, 2010 10:40 AM

HO410
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Re: Moved to hard shells

That's pretty much what I was thinking. I've heard all kinds of reasoning for different kinds of boots, but I've never thought of them as a training aid. It makes sense and it sounds like it will pay dividends for you.


I can't find the threads over on BOS, and maybe it just happened in direct conversation with Scot. During the set, he decided that he wasn't getting anything extra from the Powershells. Instead of getting into the boat and calling it a set, he decided to ski a pass back to the dock. Oops.

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#6 Tue, Oct 12, 2010 7:48 PM

rq0013
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Re: Moved to hard shells

I was also thinking about trying a hard shell after being on the RS1's for three seasons.  I think I will stay with them unless the reviews are good for the new elite bindings this spring, which I think are a great design and concept. They will be slightly closer to a hardshell with a release mech.

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#7 Wed, Oct 13, 2010 7:38 AM

HO410
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Re: Moved to hard shells

One of my ski partners has been on Fogman's for years. Early in the season he got on Prodigys and said that they were way more responsive: this was posed in terms of speed of reaction, I'm not too sure about the intensity. It also may not be a good comparison to other systems because Fogman's have some unique idiosyncrasies that are hard to describe. He eventually got to the point where he couldn't run a pass and went back to the Fogman's.
.

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#8 Wed, Oct 13, 2010 7:55 AM

2gofaster
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Re: Moved to hard shells

From what I've seen, Fogman's are like crack to a junkie. Once you're on them, you can't change.  They seem to have forward cant built into them that only the Approaches have.


Shane Hill

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#9 Wed, Oct 13, 2010 8:54 AM

tru-jack
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Re: Moved to hard shells

did I hear a rumor that Connelly bought fogman?

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#10 Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:54 AM

HO410
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Re: Moved to hard shells

There was a post to that effect over on Ballofspray. Horton's response was allong the lines of, "Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?" Because Fogman's are existing tech, I'm not sure how much the news/not news piques my interest.

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#11 Mon, Oct 25, 2010 5:06 AM

2gofaster
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Re: Moved to hard shells

I will say this after being on hard shells for a couple of weeks.............I would never recommend them to a non expert skier. They would set a mid level skier back.  If you're not into 35 off you do not have the technique to make a binding such as this work, as they will punish you for mistakes.


Shane Hill

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#12 Mon, Oct 25, 2010 6:24 AM

tzorn
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Re: Moved to hard shells

I agree 100%.  I guess I'm a mid-level skier (28' off is PB), bought a barely used pair of the red Fogman's two years ago.  It felt like I completely forgot how to ski on those bindings.  Tried them for a weekend, gave up, and later sold them for what they cost me.  I quickly went back to my  ol' Wiley's and completely lost the bug to try hardshells.  I probably wasn't good enough for em', as it felt like whatever little microadjustments I subconsciously do when skiing, could no longer be done, and I was fighting the hardshells to ski.  I still like the release benefit, and comfort of hardshells (firm fit without hurting circulation).

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#13 Mon, Oct 25, 2010 8:28 AM

WadeWilliams
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Re: Moved to hard shells

2gofaster wrote:

I will say this after being on hard shells for a couple of weeks.............I would never recommend them to a non expert skier. They would set a mid level skier back.  If you're not into 35 off you do not have the technique to make a binding such as this work, as they will punish you for mistakes.

I would agree... sort of.

When i made the switch, i was 16 yrs old, skiing for 3 summers, and i think i probably had got thru 35 once or twice maybe. Maybe not. I dont remember.

What i do remember is the feeling of near death, not being able to make turns, and generally re learning to waterski.

The number one issue to consider when getting into hard shells is your balance and agressiveness. An extremely agressive, somewhat unbalanced skier will get hurt in hard shells.. If your balance isn't like a cat on the water yet, you should stick with the rubbers. You can still get hurt in any boot, but the added rigitiy of the hardshells will punish less experienced / unbalanced skiers more.

//* look forward to a featured article.


My point is, if you're making turns on the red line, I wouldn't recommend any double hardshell system produced up until 2011.

Last edited by WadeWilliams (Mon, Oct 25, 2010 3:57 PM)

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#14 Mon, Oct 25, 2010 9:50 AM

2gofaster
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Re: Moved to hard shells

Yep, that's about where I am now Wade.  Probably about the same point you were. I skied on the hard shells a week, went back to my Stradas for a week and then back on the hard shells this week. Good grief! One week on the Strada's and I had to relearn how to ski on the hard shells! lol There is not one doubt that they are going to force me to learn to be more balanced.


Shane Hill

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#15 Mon, Oct 25, 2010 10:20 AM

HO410
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Re: Moved to hard shells

Hopefully the slate of 2011 boots make for one sweet, final year of skiing.

We all die in the year Two Thousand and Twelve.

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#16 Mon, Oct 25, 2010 11:06 AM

DanE
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Re: Moved to hard shells

Couldn´t agree more, I´ve also gone the rubber to hardshells going back to rubber route. The only hardshells I´ve tried that felt more forgiving feelwise was the exo´s. However I think that the retaining (not release) system is flawed. The alu rail that the boots attaches to tends to bend more than designed to and stay that way when used. This puts an upward pressure on the release mechanism causing it to pre release. Too bad as these boots felt like the best of both worlds with the best comfort ever and more forgiving than trad. hardshells. By the way I took the dreaded ski skip/ tip catching otf on my offside and the release worked perfectly.

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#17 Mon, Oct 25, 2010 3:13 PM

Shark
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Re: Moved to hard shells

Have anyone of you guys tried our bindings?? Kids & novices right up to world records, not a problem. Crash all you want. The Quattros will release easier than rubber.


Fluid Motion Boots

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#18 Mon, Oct 25, 2010 3:55 PM

h20dawg79
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Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
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Re: Moved to hard shells

Shark wrote:

Have anyone of you guys tried our bindings?? Kids & novices right up to world records, not a problem. Crash all you want. The Quattros will release easier than rubber.


Fluid Motion Boots

Great Looking set ups Paul! -when our economy turns around, I promise I will give you a shout...


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#19 Thu, Oct 28, 2010 7:40 AM

rdl
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Re: Moved to hard shells

I moved to hardshells (fogmans) in 2003, when people ask me about going to hardshells,
my answer is do it for foot comfort. Not safety, not performance, but comfort. I read Wade's
article and agree, I have tweaked my achilles several times, I fear one day I will get a tear.
If I were to move to hardshells today, I would lean towards reflex front and Wileys rear,
but I like the thought of both feet together in or out. A Goode type system is also appealing
to me, but I would probably make my own if I went that route.

One other benefit to hardshells is your feet stay warmer if you do any winter skiing.

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#20 Thu, Oct 28, 2010 1:54 PM

Galejan
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Re: Moved to hard shells

Comfort is the thing for me, have Goode and ski in cold water a lot...nice. And i think that rubber bindings not release as they should in cold water.

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