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Over pulling and angle?.... among other things / Pro Ski Coach Water Ski Forum
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#1 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:07 PM

wlrottge
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Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

Background.
I'm 33, been skiing all my life but just started course work last year.  My dad did some competitive skiing when he was younger and I was taught the "ground and pound" method.  I ski with Jeff Wiswall and try to be on the water 2-3x/week.  Typically it's just one set but I can get 10-12 or more passes.  I've just started trying to get more video/pics of myself skiing b/c I think that I get more out of that than I do hearing what anyone else has to say.  Not saying that I'm not listening but when I see what I'm doing, it makes it more obvious to me what I need to do to fix it.  He says that I think too much and am in my head...  he's right, I'm super competitive (race catamarans, collegiate runner and raced mountain bikes)

I'm 6'2, 190-195lbs and skiing on a 67" Senate w/double Vectors.  The ski is setup stock.  I'm having issues with basics and getting past 3-4 at -15 and just under 30mph.

Currently I'm working hard on getting my hips further up and staying on edge through the wake.  I've been breaking badly at the waist but didn't realize how much till this weekend (pics and video).  I think that I'm over pulling early, going after too much angle and coming off edge in the middle of the wake.  I break at the waist and end up flat skiing and too far forward with too much speed to make a nice turn (late out of the ball).

I'm trying to figure out how to keep plenty of angle w/o getting too much speed (and load) to help me stay on edge to the second wake.  I think (rookie talking) that if I can keep a nicer pull and position that I'll be setup much better for my turn (not too hot and standing straighter/taller).  I watch others that don't ski as hard or cross as fast have a MUCH easier time at -15, so it's driving me nuts trying to figure out how to get over the hump.  I feel like once I can fix a couple of problems and be more consistent, length and speed will come.  (Sorry, I'm an engineer, I think about this WAY too much.  Couple that with my competitive nature and Iím easily disappointed in myself.)

Here are a couple from Sunday.  During last night's ski, I had a guy running into 35 helping and I was working on keeping my hips up with better weight distribution.  My question is, I feel like the ski is a bit slow to turn and I might be too far back on it.  I'm trying to keep my weight centered and feel like I do a good job of keeping my knees together, but I'm told that I'm too stiff through the wake.  I try to absorb the shock but I think that leads me towards coming off edge in the middle of the wake.  I've had someone say (not a coach) that I should have more tip in the water behind the boat.  I was wondering if moving forward one hole and barely moving the fin forward would help (I know, one change at a time) or if my ski attitude looks pretty good and maybe making the ski a little quicker to turn would make me feel better.  I feel very even between my off/on sides and it always takes me a second when people talk a/b it b/c I don't think of them as being very different.

I look at pics and video of Rossi, Schnitz, Seth and others and I feel like I've got too much ski angle but I don't know how to get away from where I'm at.... or if I even should.  I watch others (in person and video) work less and accomplish more.

Sorry for the long post, I just know that the work behind the boat sets you up for the turn which sets you up for work behind the boat.  One part of your pass is not separate from the others.  If I can fix the position and the pull, it will make the turn easier, if the turn is better, the pull will be better.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=1 … 0e8c7c9a6e

Thanks!

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#2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:18 PM

brennank
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

I'm a 15 off skier also. So take my advice with a grain of salt.

From what I can tell in the pictures you are pulling to hard too soon.
Let your ski finish the turn and come under your hands then begin to lean away from the boat. Once your ski is on the angle going across the course and under you then start to pull. This will feel really weird when you first do it a few times, but it starts a really nice cut and sets you up well. You will pulling as soon as you could, wait for the ski to finish its turn and then pull.
Lean away with less cross course angle and don't "pull" hold your arms straight. The "pull" will build up.
When you first start to lean it will feel like you are late and never going to make the next ball. The angle will hold and the pull will get harder and you will accelerate as the boat continues.
A key point is where your are looking during the cut. You are looking at the next ball when you should be focusing on the pylon or boat transom.
By the time you hit the second wake, or a little after you should be letting up and begin your edge change. Then you ski casts away and you begin your really slow and smooth turn.

You also need to bend you knees more. Your back leg is almost straight when coming into the wakes.

A good cut leads to a good turn, a good turn leads to a good cut.

Last edited by brennank (Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:25 PM)

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#3 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 6:31 PM

wlrottge
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

Big strong guy, my little chicken arms are touched!!  ;-)

That's one of the things I find hard, waiting for the pull.

bren, did you mean front knee?  I thought the back knee looked pretty good.

The "lean away with less angle" is hard to understand b/c I feel like if I did that, I'd be leaning back and the ski.  I'm trying to stay off the tail now.

Maybe I'll have more pics or video after tomorrow night.

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#4 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 6:36 PM

brennank
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

wlrottge wrote:

Big strong guy, my little chicken arms are touched!!  ;-)

bren, did you mean front knee?  I thought the back knee looked pretty good.

The "lean away with less angle" is hard to understand b/c I feel like if I did that, I'd be leaning back and the ski.  I'm trying to stay off the tail now.

Maybe I'll have more pics or video after tomorrow night.

Yea, I meant your front knee.
Lean away from the boat, and have you ski take less of a cross coarse angle.
You are correct in that if you stay off your tail, more centered over the ski it will cut much better.
My apologies, I was not very clear.

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#5 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 6:50 PM

HO410
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

Woops, that first post was not quite what I wanted.

http://www.proskicoach.com/slalom_artic … e_diagram/


Your perspective is 100% off when you are on the water. You get tricked into thinking that you need to point the ski 90 degrees and get over there as fast as possible. It's counterintuitive but if you take less angle out of the buoy, then it will be easier to maintain your outbound direction. Even the pros get pulled fast and narrow if they turn too far and load up the rope. One of the things you can do to prevent yourself from overturning is to pick up the next buoy: as you are finishing your turn, visually find the next buoy.

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#6 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 9:28 PM

wlrottge
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

I'm used to competing in sports where how hard you push determines how well you do.  In this case I need to "slow down" to go faster (a sailing term we use).  I've got to figure out how to pull less to go faster.

The only alternate settings listed on PSC are by Rossi and he likes the bindings more forward and more DFT.  I don't know if bending knees and pushing hips up will get more ski in the water, so should I try moving the bindings forward a hole.  I know that it's not the tools, it's the carpenter but if there is something that I can do to help myself, I'm all for it.

Thanks!  I'm told that I need to stop thinking and just ski, but I'm a visualization person, so... if I can think about and visualize what i need to do, it helps me to go make it happen.

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#7 Thu, Aug 5, 2010 9:50 AM

BudMan
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From: Sandy Run, SC (Near Columbia)
Registered: Tue, Nov 24, 2009
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

wlrottge,
I did not think your angle look excessive. Posting a video would be more helpful by showing more.


Life is great! Enjoy every minute!

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#8 Sat, Aug 7, 2010 8:45 AM

EdJohnson
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

One general point on legs. The best advice I ever got was years ago from Chet Raley who told me "Ski like a one legged skier." By this he meant, MAKE BOTH LEGS WORK AS ONE.
Next, as far as loading goes. If, you can freeze your counter-rotation at the apex, engage your core, and slide to the hookup.(NO ROTATION)  Keeping the handle low and the hip up into the handle. This will allow you to be pulled by the boat from your COM,, Center of Mass, thus taking the pull off your arms, shoulders, and back. Eliminates back pain.
I could go on for hours about this but HIGHLY recommend reading Chis Rossi's article, "The Power Triangle," here on his Website, for a brilliant explanation of this.

Best Regards,   ED

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#9 Sun, Aug 8, 2010 10:30 AM

wlrottge
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

EdJohnson wrote:

One general point on legs. The best advice I ever got was years ago from Chet Raley who told me "Ski like a one legged skier." By this he meant, MAKE BOTH LEGS WORK AS ONE.

This makes a lot of sense.  I keep hearing, "more bend in the front knee" and "should have almost no weight on the back leg".

It seems impossible that you can get the ski out in front of you AND not have much weight on the back leg.

In my search for examples, I looked at the Radar site to see how the ski rides in the water with a pro on it.  I think Jason McClintock's position is interesting.  Not a lot of knee bend but really keeps his hips up and core engaged.

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#10 Sun, Aug 8, 2010 10:52 PM

wlrottge
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

I'm skiing 3x/week.  Last day out was Thurs and I was working on; bent knees, hips, holding edge and more.

Today I simplified it and was just trying to keep my hips up and handle down.  I wish I started getting video of myself last year, it's been THE biggest help (besides time on the water).  It seems that if you can keep your hips up and rotated the correct direction, the edge takes care of itself.

This was not my best pass form wise, but it was the most number of balls.  As the set went on, I was working to slow down.  If I can get a decent 1 ball, I think -15 is going to fall easily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ferurARlDfg

Last edited by wlrottge (Sun, Aug 8, 2010 10:53 PM)

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#11 Mon, Aug 9, 2010 9:56 AM

Thomas Wayne
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

I'm not a ski coach by any stretch of the imagination, but watching your video I think your current problem is very obvious.  In my opinion it's 100% your gate, and here's proof:

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n293/ThomasWayne_2006/WillBgatevstwo-ball.jpg

In the above composite image - made up of screen captures from your video - you can see two sequences, one of your gate and one of the last half of your two ball.  By comparing the wake position and rope angle you might notice that each pair of screen caps was taken at very close to the same part the turn-in and pull.

As the gate photos show, you are stopping your turn-in before you've achieved any sort of  efficient angle (frame 1).  Once you've loaded the rope you can forget about building any more angle, so you've got no speed and no angle through the gate (frame 2).  To compound things, you're changing edges right in the middle of the wake, guaranteeing a late, narrow one-ball that you barely squeak around.  Bear in mind that at -15' the handle itself can easily swing more than 20 feet outside the buoy line!  Meanwhile, you don't actually carry the handle outside the one-ball buoy line at all.

Now look at the two-ball photos.  Because you're committed to a more complete turn in toward the wake (frame 1) you're practically guaranteed to finish with better speed and angle at the wake (frame 2), which allows you to carry speed and angle through the second wake (frame 3).  If your gate was even 50% as good as your two-ball you'd easily run this pass (and more).

I'm not going to presume to tell you how to fix your gate - that job belongs to competent coaches  such as our host Wade Williams.  But I can give you an experiment to try that may prove what I'm talking about here.  Next time you ski, instead of including the gate in your pass, make the two-ball your starting point.

Ride next to the left-hand wake, just as if you were waiting for your pull out for the gates - but don't pull out until you pass the entrance gates (red balls) by about 20 - 30 feet.  At that point pull out with enough momentum to ski well outside the two-ball, trying to "backside" the buoy as you head for the three-ball.  Essentially, that three-ball becomes your "one-ball" for this pass, and you'll only be able to ski around four buoys - which is exactly what you accomplished in the video.  But what you should start to feel is the tremendous advantage you'll have with good angle and an early line into the one-ball.

Fix that gate and you'll run this pass, probably wondering why you ever thought it was hard at all.

TW

Last edited by Thomas Wayne (Tue, Aug 10, 2010 8:13 AM)

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#12 Mon, Aug 9, 2010 10:23 AM

HO410
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

Did you let up so that you wouldn't miss the gates? Don't worry about cutting your gets. It's more important to have a good start at one ball than it is to have the specifics of your gate timing nailed down.

That said, it did look like you fell back and to the right on your turn in to the gate. Because of that you lost a lot of momentum and the ski never realy came around. I would revisit EdJohnson's post about being a one legged skier.

Last edited by HO410 (Mon, Aug 9, 2010 10:25 AM)

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#13 Mon, Aug 9, 2010 6:44 PM

wlrottge
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

Oh, I know the gates are a major issue for me.  I've been working on them and have read the articles written by Schnitz, Rossi and others.  I do find myself skiing to the ball out of the gate.... I need to work on that....

Problem that I've been having is WAY too much speed through the gate and at one-ball.  That in turn makes it hard for me to keep the line taught, make a nice carve.... soo.... I end up even later out of one.  I've got a ton more speed but I'm having to learn to go slower b/c I can't use it b/c it makes me WAY late out of the balls.  I'm trying to slow down a little and backside one better.  I keep thinking that if I can fix the gate that -15 will fall and I'll start making "progress".  My coach thinks I'm progressing quickly and says that I'll be surprised where I'm at a year from now.

I thought my hips were better in that pass than they were.  I didn't watch it frame by frame but I could tell that I needed to come up even more, didn't realize they were that bad.  I'm looking forward to being able to shorten up and get into a nicer wake zone.

More water time tomorrow.  This is getting more and more addictive every time I get another ball.

Last edited by wlrottge (Mon, Aug 9, 2010 7:23 PM)

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#14 Mon, Aug 9, 2010 8:07 PM

Jhughes
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Registered: Mon, Jan 7, 2008
Posts: 118
Skis At: Lake County, IL
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

FWIW I think your skiing looks pretty darned good. Reading your posts, I was expecting to see a total basketcase pass but that was smooth and had a lot of good things going in it. I wish I looked that good a year after getting into the course!

I agree with TW's thoughts on gate angle and I do think that's a major culprit here but I've had plenty of very lousy gates at low speed/long line passes and still completed them- we're talking terrible gates. To my eye it looked like you were pulling too far into the 2nd wake, causing a hurried/narrow/late turn. I see a late edge change and hurried turn.

On your pullout if you're feeling hurried or getting slack, press down on the front of the ski. It's your "brake" for that coast/glide period before you turn in. The hips will come up in time- I wouldn't focus on the hips specifically as that's never worked for me.

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#15 Mon, Aug 9, 2010 11:19 PM

Thomas Wayne
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

wlrottge wrote:

Oh, I know the gates are a major issue for me.  I've been working on them and have read the articles written by Schnitz, Rossi and others.  I do find myself skiing to the ball out of the gate.... I need to work on that....

Problem that I've been having is WAY too much speed through the gate [...]

At -15' there's no such thing as "way too much speed through the gate" - UNLESS you have terrible angle and are skiing straight at the one ball.... which is exactly what you're doing in the video you posted.

The gate sets up the angle and rhythm for the rest of the course.  Because you are skiing directly at the one-ball (and barely getting around it) you're not actually finishing the turn until at least 20 feet past the buoy.  At the two-ball you finish a good 30 feet past the ball, 40 - 45 feet past the three-ball and 50 - 60 feet past the 4-ball.  After that you simply don't have enough room left to squeak around the 5-ball.

In that video you do NOT have too much speed through the gate... you have way too little angle.

I took a few moments to create a CAD drawing that pretty closely illustrates the line you're skiing, which is represented by the green path below (everything is to scale except the ball diameters, made larger so you can see them).  Notice how you finish your turn later and later until finally you can't get around the five ball.

Now look at the purple skier path.  Not only do you get around the five-ball, you're probably going to make the entire course -  a result that I sense interests you.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n293/ThomasWayne_2006/bettergate.jpg

Here's the interesting part: both skier paths are IDENTICAL - if you superimpose the purple path over the top of the green path they will line up exactly.  I didn't make you ski wider, earlier, or give you tighter turns on your purple pass.  The ONLY thing I did was give you a gate with a marginally better angle - about 1 1/2 degrees better.  That's all it takes: better angle.

Now you can choose to believe that or not, but I'm telling you right now if you had the same angle and duration of pull through the gate that you have from the two-ball to the three-ball you'd be running this pass with ease.

TW

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#16 Tue, Aug 10, 2010 4:48 AM

Deke
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From: Telluride, CO
Registered: Thu, Apr 3, 2008
Posts: 126
Skis At: 15/34
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

TW is absolutely on the money.  Only thing missing here is HOW to get a better gate.  This is where you could use some pro coaching.  You have video, why not bite the bullet and submit it for some Virtual Coaching?  From the photos above even I can see some issues in the gate sequence and I'm definitely no coach!  Best bet is live coaching.  When you finally do it you'll wonder why you waited so long.

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#17 Tue, Aug 10, 2010 8:12 AM

Thomas Wayne
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

Deke wrote:

TW is absolutely on the money.  Only thing missing here is HOW to get a better gate.  This is where you could use some pro coaching.  You have video, why not bite the bullet and submit it for some Virtual Coaching?  [...]

Absolutely.  You can get on track to fixing your gate TODAY for way cheaper than traveling to some ski school for coaching - not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

Put together a couple of videos, spend ~ $75 with PayPal for video coaching, and start running this pass while there's still some summer left.  Here's a well-regarded "Virtual Coach" who could easily help you get over the hump: http://www.proskicoach.com/pros/wade_williams/

The -35' guys you ski with have done a fine job of getting you where you are now, but if they had ALL the answers you'd be running this pass.  $75 is enough gas money for two or three ski days - OR you could spend it to quickly get truly expert coaching from the comfort of your own home... today.

TW

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#18 Tue, Aug 10, 2010 3:04 PM

wlrottge
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

Thanks for the tips, it really helps!  the CAD drawing is very telling.  I had thought a/b taking my waterproof GPS that I use for cat racing and attaching it to my shoulder to see if I could get a good enough track to see what it looked like.

I do ski with a coach 3x/week and will be on the water tonight.  I'm going to review before getting wet and see what I come up with.  I need to throw the couse into CAD and estimate a "0" ball.  i.e. "If I was rounding a ball before 1, what would that look like?"  I'm sure I can find that in an article (which gate ball lines up with #1) but sometimes (for me) it helps to figure it out myself.

I had planned on getting an online session from one of the coaches but had not decided which one or when.  I wanted to give myself another week or two to get a couple of things worked out better so that I'm getting the best bang for my buck AND not wasting their time.  My wife is a 3-day eventer and I know that she'd be embarissed to ride with a big clinician if she wasn't prepared enough to recieve that instruction.

Lucky for me, I'm in Alabama.  We have warm water longer than most people do.  ;-)  I didn't even have time to ski till June b/c of my wife's competition schedule.

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#19 Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:55 PM

wlrottge
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

Ok, worked on gates and hips/elbows tonight.

I decided that the "slow/easy" gate just wasn't getting me where I needed to be and when.  I figured I'd put more fire into it and see how things worked out.  My coach thought I was too hot, but it was easier for me to get to the buoy line ~20' before the ball.  I burned the paint off the back side of that thing several times.  I still had some that weren't so hot but I was trying to find my "departure point".  We agreed that what I was doing, albeit a little fast for -15 was working for me.

I had a really pretty (IMO for me) 5 ball pass around the 8th pass.  I went two more passes and was on the down hill side of the energy curve.  Last pass, I ran all 6.  It was not as pretty as some of the others but it was effective.  I was late out of one, about the same out of two but was making up time and getting earlier as the pass went on.  I got to five and thought, "don't EFF it up!".  Had a half crappy turn but still had plenty of time to six and out the gate.

During the five ball pass, I've got audio of my coach saying, "he's really looking like a skier... sh*t, he's a/b to run this pas"..... then I puked at 5.  lol

The video is bumpy b/c we didn't use the tracker and the guy hand holding zoomed in too close.  I'll probably youtube it tomorrow.

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#20 Wed, Aug 11, 2010 5:19 AM

h20dawg79
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From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

"Too Much Speed" and The "Feeling of Fast" are generally the exact opposite of what is actually going on. The Feeling of Fast is normally the reality of being Late and/or narrow and this will produce the "Perception" of Fast.

In the Course, The reality is; When you are actually going Fast (producing enuf time to be early and wide) the perception and feeling will be that you are Going Slow. Especially @ long line, your nicest, smoothest, EASIEST passes will ALWAYS feel very slow and almost Boring and un-eventful...

Once someone ingrains a technical pattern whether it's a Good or Bad Habit, it's Very Hard to break away from the pattern. Most tech. glitches that one can get away with @ -15 & -22 will surely bite back hard @ -28 and completely Halt ones progress.

P.S. (unrelated to rest of topic) 30 mph @ 195lbs. on a 67" is going to make it a bit tough. As your ski will be sinking and dragging to some degree. (Especially on long line...) Not neccessarily working for you, but against you.
Personally, I would try to bump the speed up to 31 and then 32mph and forget trying to nail the Gate Balls. Work on a Great Gate shot, but miss the gate balls a few feet early and then start grooving the rest of the course. If you will do this, you Will start your pass un-Hurried and Rushed and you will be able to get through the entire course again and again. Later on, you can work on tightening up your Gate shot and your start pt. for your turn in. But, your turn in will NOT need to change, only your starting pt...

Good Luck!

Last edited by h20dawg79 (Wed, Aug 11, 2010 5:21 AM)


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#21 Wed, Aug 11, 2010 2:14 PM

Chef23
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Registered: Wed, Jul 30, 2008
Posts: 59
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Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

You are getting some good advice about what you need to work on.  Regarding the gates I agree with TW that you are narrow and without angle.  I would suggest pulling out earlier and much wider.  Then turn the ski into the wakes and gradually build angle and speed on the pull until you are working your hardest at the first wake. 

When you commit to the turn in and the pull go hard don't try to tip toe through the gates if you are early.  In practice if you miss the gates adjust your turn in time on the next pass.

I am not sure I agree with speeding up I didn't think you look like you are sinking much on that ski.  If you ski a better higher line you will carry plenty of speed around the turns.

One last thought on your turns.  I don't think you are countering much at the turns.  Try taking your free hand in the turn and moving it to your outside hip and keeping it there until the ski is pointing back across the course on the line you want then reach for the handle.  It will feel like you are waiting forever and will never get to the next buoy.  What will happen is that you will get much better angle out of the buoy and will be faster and earlier across the wake.

Good luck

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#22 Wed, Aug 11, 2010 3:05 PM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

re: the speed increase. (clarification)

IMO, according to Radar, @ 195lbs. the 69" Senate would be the right ski. (especially at 30mph.) Also, 30mph is the Bottom end of the recommended speed for the Senate ski. (with 32mph being in the very middle.) Therefore, 32mph would allow the ski to operate closer to it's optimum or designed speed.
So, when you combine a shorter then optimum ski with a slower then optimum speed, you will get a ski that will surely work Against the skier and not neccessarily for them throughout the course and compounding any technique glitches...

Regardless, No ski (at this point in time...) will overcome fundemental flaws like Line management  and Handle control issues like properly getting the Hips up and maintaining a Low Handle.

Last edited by h20dawg79 (Wed, Aug 11, 2010 3:07 PM)


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#23 Thu, Aug 12, 2010 10:50 PM

wlrottge
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Regular
Registered: Thu, Jun 17, 2010
Posts: 12

Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

Sorry for being absentee poster... been crazy at work with the boss gone.  Had to even skip my ski session tonight to meet our equine chiropractor b/c my wife was hammered today too.... I need a vacation!!

Thanks for all the info.

I know what you mean a/b the slow/fast sensation.  When I have a good pass it feels like I have all day to get there.  I've been trying to make my carve, picking up the rope and acceleration more gradual.  I had been locking in way too soon and developing too much speed (for my line length) too early.  I'd end up wide but having to carve too long to get a decent turn w/o just whipping the ski and taking a hit.  I can't tell you how many times I heard from my coach, "slow down, too fast for this level"... or something like it.  He's very much a proponent of efficiency and soft skiing.

With regards to my size, my ski size and speed:  I was set to buy the 69.  After some research, forum reading, discussion with a friend who has a 69 Senate, a trusted ski shop and Radar, it was decided that since I'm in the 190-195 and am skiing slower right now temporarily to get some course basics, the 67 made more sense instead of buying one ski now and another in a couple of months.  The thought was that I'm the top of the 67 range and the bottom of the 69.  The drawbacks to the 69 would be greater than the 67.  There's a guy I ski with who is 230, skies into 32 and feels his 69 HO is too big.  He wants to try the Senate and thinks the 67 will work better for him.

Apparently getting the first -15 pass might have been some sort of key to the big boys club.  I was told tonight that now that I've run one, it's time to up the speed.  IMO that's going to help my form to some extent.  Slightly smaller wake, less ski sinking in the turns (easier to not break at hips and keep knees bent since ski will ride flatter).  Since lift goes up as the square of the velocity, I expect to have a lot more tail support with an additional 3,4,5 mph under the ski.  Maybe that theory turns out to be BS, but I know that I've never liked the feel of skiing as slow as I am now.

I've not had time to mess with the video from Tues and won't till Sunday/Monday (beach trip).  After watching all the video, the nicest technique pass only got me five balls b/c I puked around five.  I can see that I was letting the ski carve and progressively pushed the ski out front and pulled my hips up as I accelerated.  The full pass started with a late one/two but I made up time 2-3-4-5.  I was survival skiing b/c I was gassed after 10 or so passes in a row.  My turns at the balls weren't as nice but my work behind the boat was better than the last video I posted.  I'm making progress very quickly right now (with help from PSC, my coach and video).  I want to give myself another 1-2 weeks to see how I do with more speed and then think a/b an online session.  Any suggestions?  I hate missing tonight b/c I won't be able to be on the water again till Sunday...  The more I do, the more motivated I get!

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#24 Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:56 AM

slam2ball
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Regular
Registered: Thu, Aug 27, 2009
Posts: 23
Foot Forward: RFF

Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

nice skiing dude!

if i were coaching you i would give you 1 drill.

shorten the rope to 16m, maybe speed it up 2mph.

get the rope out to the left hand side of the boat 90degrees from the pylon.
tape a cross on the outside of the boat so you are able to see it, while skiing.
now have a free ski, BUT you don't cut to the other side until that rope goes over the cross!!!  (gate simulation)
now the free skiing will help you focus on technique instead of chasing buoys concentrate on still upper body, squeezing the pressure through the line, try show your driver/coach how light you can be on the ski.

1. on land try this. bend from your knee - all that happens is you move into a seated position shifting your weight back.
now bend from your ankle - your hips come up and forward weight balanced over your two feet.
2. go to the bank and look at a slalom course - its allot longer, narrower than you have seen. (serious when was the last time any of us really looked at a slalom course?, i mean really looked at it)
3. slow down - when i say that i mean just information. go into the course with a quite mind only concentration on one thing.
4. enjoy your sets, skiing is fairly simple, so keep it simple!

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#25 Tue, Sep 7, 2010 8:08 PM

2gofaster
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Slalom Mentor
From: Cypress, Tx
Registered: Sun, Jun 1, 2008
Posts: 337

Re: Over pulling and angle?.... among other things

Slam2ball is right on with what I'm thinking.  ONe of the hardest things for a new skier to grasp is the difference between soft knees and squatting. With few exceptions, you want to be tall on the ski.  When you bend those knees, you tend to sit down like in a chair.  Then your hips go behind you, your shoulders move forward, and it's a rodeo.  Few people can get away with excessive knee bend because it makes it very difficult to resist the load as it builds. Take a look at this picture of Chad Scott from the Ski Ranch Record last weekend. This is picture perfect technique here. He is perfectly stacked on his ski. Now don't confuse me saying stand tall with locking your knees.  When you are standing on dry land, your front knee should be in the middle of your front foot. Jodi Fisher and Charles Mueller both worked with me on this. They kept hammering it into me that my knee bend was causing me to lose my hips and get seperation between the handle and core. And then one day Charles got me on land and said this is how I want you to stand. I finally started to get it and my skiing improved leaps and bounds then.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s320/2gofaster/chadscott.jpg


Shane Hill

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