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#1 Thu, Jul 15, 2010 5:11 PM

kdameyer
Karma:   
Rookie
From: St. Marys, Ohio
Registered: Tue, Aug 26, 2008
Posts: 4
Skis At: Shortline shores in Ohio
Foot Forward: Right

Dipping the handle in the water

I can run 15', 22' and 28' at 34 mph w/o dunking the handle in the water.  I can see out of the corner of my eye that the handle seems like it is 2' to 3' off of the water at these passes.  Once I get to 32' off however, I start dunking the handle in the water.  It happens on both sides, but it seems like it happens more on my offside turns(RFF).  I don't think the ski is stalling and breaking me over at the waist and causing me to dunk my handle.   I do have a slight amount of bend at the waist at the turn, probably from the old ski technique that I am trying to break that you had to get on the tip in order slow down so the ski would turn.  It is not much though, maybe 15 degrees or so.  I think more of the problem is that my reach is fine, but when I pull the handle back into my belly, I kinda reach down instead of pulling it up and into my belly.  My wife and kids call it scooping.  Any suggestions on how to fix this?
Thanks

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#2 Thu, Jul 15, 2010 5:56 PM

Chef23
Karma:   
Slasher
From: Natick, MA
Registered: Wed, Jul 30, 2008
Posts: 59
Foot Forward: Left

Re: Dipping the handle in the water

Think about having the reach be toward the boat then don't pull into your body but ski back to the handle.  If you do that it should keep the handle from dipping.

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#3 Fri, Jul 16, 2010 4:38 AM

ScarletArrow
Karma:   
Slasher
From: Akron, OH
Registered: Wed, Aug 22, 2007
Posts: 51
Skis At: Bellalago - Leavittsburg, Ohio
Foot Forward: Left
Website

Re: Dipping the handle in the water

Here's some video...


Time to ski!

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#4 Fri, Jul 16, 2010 7:19 AM

HO410
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sat, Sep 29, 2007
Posts: 345
Skis At: Outlaw Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Dipping the handle in the water

Good skiing KD.
You need to come up with some kind of mental concept of physical cue that will keep you from pusing the handle down at the finish of your turn. My inner Chet Raley is favoring some kind of visualization of that handle being a fixed point that you can't move up or down.

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#5 Fri, Jul 16, 2010 10:13 AM

kdameyer
Karma:   
Rookie
From: St. Marys, Ohio
Registered: Tue, Aug 26, 2008
Posts: 4
Skis At: Shortline shores in Ohio
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Dipping the handle in the water

Anthony(a.k.a as scarletarrow), thank you for posting the video of me.  That helps show what I am doing.

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#6 Fri, Jul 16, 2010 5:48 PM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: Dipping the handle in the water

Dan, great job in the tourney! You are so close to Blowing away your new PB!

What I see is a lack of Good handle control @ the shorter lengths. Which is having a snowball effect... In your -15 pass, you are keeping a much better leveraged position Body wise during your pull and your hands are much lower towards your waist. You are Balanced and have plenty of time aft your edge change and you set up and smoothly transition into your turn. Maintaining good handle control and a solid connection to the Boat.

@ -22 you begin to be hurried a bit by coming into your buoys a touch narrower. This is from being in a slightly less desirable Body & hand position during your pull then you had @ -15. This gets even more evident as you continue to shorten the rope.

A better Lean, with your arms straight and your hands at your waist line (Hips up) will get you a much better angle, while allowing you the time and opportunity to keep your ski heading Outbound aft your edge change. This will allow you the extra time needed to fully counter rotate and maintain a solid connection to the Boat through a fluid turn.

I have found with me, the only time that I dip my reach hand is coming in Narrow and flat or slightly flat (which "Feels" really Fast) and then trying to hurry a wicked turn. (can be Habit forming.)

I noticed your counter rotation was almost non existent especially on your off-side and your head tends to fall and look @ the buoys. Which pulls you fwd. -Both of which reduce Handle control and the solid connection (slack) to the Boat. While also creating the desire (reaction) to drop the hand for balance or to catch yourself.

"Handle Control" and your smokin' that -35 pass!wink

Good Luck!smile


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#7 Sat, Jul 17, 2010 4:01 AM

2gofaster
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
From: Cypress, Tx
Registered: Sun, Jun 1, 2008
Posts: 337

Re: Dipping the handle in the water

I notice some of the same things as H20.  You ski at the ball, come off the handle, really don't bring that outside shoulder back, look down at the ball, turn quickly,  and because of all that your head stays in a line with your body.  This causes your upper body to look "tippy". You can't help but drop the handle when your upper body is on the verge of tipping over.  Your head should be much more verticle.  Watch some video of Parrish or Rossi and see where their head is at all times.  I also noticed something in your turn in for the gates. You glide with the handle high and away. Then when you go to turn in you make this chopping motion with the handle.  There was at least one gate where the chopping motion interfered with the skis rotation under you.  I had the same gate motion and my coach had me bring the handle down to my body in the glide with my left arm straight. He had me square completely up to the course in the glide too. So when I initiate the turn in, it's done already countered and with the right hip driving in and forward.  With the handle low to the right hip and the left arm straight across the body, the chopping motion is gone and it's just a switch from one hip to the other as the ski rotates in.

Oh, and good skiing! Congrats on a new pb.

Last edited by 2gofaster (Sat, Jul 17, 2010 4:03 AM)


Shane Hill

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#8 Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:39 PM

kdameyer
Karma:   
Rookie
From: St. Marys, Ohio
Registered: Tue, Aug 26, 2008
Posts: 4
Skis At: Shortline shores in Ohio
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Dipping the handle in the water

H2O and 2gofaster, good advice.  I wil try working on that.  I had video shot of myself alot last year and I noticed those exact same things.  I worked on them and thought I was getting better.  The video from scarletarrow was the first that I have seen of myself in awhile and I noticed that they have crept back into my form.  Bummer.  Well, I have got some things to work on now.  Thanks guys!!

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#9 Mon, Jul 19, 2010 8:47 AM

jamisonsbrodie
Karma:   
Slasher
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sun, Mar 1, 2009
Posts: 72
Skis At: Lotus Lake
Foot Forward: Left

Re: Dipping the handle in the water

Congrats on the new tourney PB!  Maybe this was brought up already, but what I see is that your shoulders are in front of your hips.  It should be the other way around.  It will be impossible to get keep your elbows in if your hips are behind you.  You have nice smooth turns, but your body position is keeping you from getting into the power position.  Bring your shoulders back and hips forward and this will help a ton.  You will easily run 35 if you just change you body position.

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#10 Mon, Jul 19, 2010 1:11 PM

kdameyer
Karma:   
Rookie
From: St. Marys, Ohio
Registered: Tue, Aug 26, 2008
Posts: 4
Skis At: Shortline shores in Ohio
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Dipping the handle in the water

I worked on keeping the hips up and shoulder back last night during practice at 15', 22' and 28'.  Didn't want to try any 32's yet because I am quite sure that I would go back to my old habit.  I fell a few times because of I think I over countered a few times and one time my shoulders were back, but I was on my tail too much, but that is ok.  That happens when you are trying to improve.  For the most part I was pleased with my progress.  If I stayed in good position in the turns, the pulls were seamless and strong and I was at the next ball early.  It won't be an automatic fix, so I will keep working on it.  I will keep everyone posted on my progress. Hopefully take some more video in the next day or two so I can look at my progress.  Thank you to everyone for your help so far.

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#11 Mon, Jul 19, 2010 4:10 PM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: Dipping the handle in the water

Just a couple more thoughts; I would suggest only working on only 1 thing at a time and Not trying to go on to the next thing until #1 is like second nature. I also wouldn't try to Counter Rotate Too much at -15 & 22. In the vid. your upper body wants to counter but, it needs to start @ your ankles and work up through the hips and then the shoulders.

I believe, if you will work deligently on just the Handle control, (Hips up, hands low) from Hook up to the next reach, you'll be well on your way to an even better PB very quickly!

It's Not a "Tug O War"... BUT, if you think about the difference in Balance and Leverage between the Hips up, Hands Low position vs. leading with your head & upperbody with the Hands held high, you should be able to visualize and "Feel" the difference in leverage and power between the two.


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#12 Tue, Jul 20, 2010 8:58 AM

StevenHaines
Karma:   11 
Slalom Mentor
From: Canyon Lake Ca.
Registered: Mon, Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 152
Skis At: Canyon Lake, Ca.
Foot Forward: right
Website

Re: Dipping the handle in the water

Ok, since everyone has had such great technical ideas, I'm coming at this from a fitness point of view. How is your core strength? I ask this because at my max I have a tendency to leave my hips behind me in the turn. If you have a strong core you'll be able to with stand the forces on your body better and be able to stay in a more statue-esque type of position in the turns like Rossi, Parish and W.W. smile

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#13 Tue, Jul 20, 2010 9:13 AM

WadeWilliams
Karma:   15 
Pro Skier
From: Lynn, MA
Registered: Tue, May 15, 2007
Posts: 1087
Skis At: Not short enough
Foot Forward: Right
Website

Re: Dipping the handle in the water

Hope you've got enough suggestions!

Some folks already hit the nail on the head but if you reach towards your knee at the finish of the turn, at 35 off your knee is just about in the water... so if that's where you're reaching, it will be hitting the water especially as you go shorter.

http://www.proskicoach.com/forum/uploads/2_kdamm.jpg


Keep your handle arm and your shoulders parallell to the water through the finish of the turn. This will involve reaching much much higher than you are used to.

If you stand vertical like this: | then it might be ok to reach down like you are. But as soon as you put yourself on an angle like this / your arm needs to be like this --... when you were vertical your arm would be well above your shoulder.

There's plenty more to talk about to work through this issue and you'll always get more hands on help with an Online Lesson

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