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#1 Tue, Mar 9, 2010 3:20 PM

skincalifornia
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Registered: Mon, Mar 8, 2010
Posts: 2

Reflex bindings

Looking at new bindings, broke my front foot last year in the connelly drafts.  I'm looking now at the Reflex binding, but am curious why they suggest not to use a high wrap in back?  What are the options for back boots if you're not supposed to use a rubber boot in back?  Only RTP or the reflex back?

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#2 Tue, Mar 9, 2010 3:32 PM

TaddSchreiber
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Pro Skier
From: Talking Rock, GA
Registered: Fri, Mar 7, 2008
Posts: 12
Skis At: Whitestone Lakes
Foot Forward: Right
Website

Re: Reflex bindings

SkinCalifornia,

Give me a call and we can talk.  There are a few options as to which rear you can go with with a Reflex.

There are many out there that use a Wileys or even an Animal, but they keep it a bit looser, rather than super tight, so that if your front releases, your rear will come out too.  The main reason that Reflex says not to use a highwrap in back is liability.  It is not recommended to use a highwrap, but people do still use one.  The possibility always remains that you may get injured, but you can lessen it with the proper set up.
Main thing is, to make sure your foot will come out when needed.
Email me or give me a call and we can discuss all the boot systems out there.
Thanks
TS
tadd@h2osmosis.com
866.213.7993
H2Osmosis Sports/H2Oproshop.com

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#3 Tue, Mar 9, 2010 3:55 PM

skincalifornia
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Posts: 2

Re: Reflex bindings

Tadd-

Actually that answers my question.  I was using an animal in the back with the draft in front and was running the animal fairly loose anyway.   

I ordered the reflex binding off your site this morning and just wasn't sure when i was reading the owners manual.

Paul
Fresno, CA

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#4 Wed, Mar 10, 2010 9:11 AM

TaddSchreiber
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Pro Skier
From: Talking Rock, GA
Registered: Fri, Mar 7, 2008
Posts: 12
Skis At: Whitestone Lakes
Foot Forward: Right
Website

Re: Reflex bindings

Paul,

I dont have an order for a "Paul".  I do have an order for california though, shipping today. Let me know.
Thanks
Tadd

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#5 Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:26 PM

skidream
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Regular
From: Colorado
Registered: Sat, May 17, 2008
Posts: 38
Skis At: Madison, Still Farm
Foot Forward: Left

Re: Reflex bindings

Will be getting my Reflex from Tadd soon! wink

Question though...What are your feelings on the carbon plate vs. the aluminum plate? Anyone know what setup Will Asher is using? Haha


Warming up!!!

Ski Hard or Go Home!!

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#6 Wed, Mar 10, 2010 7:49 PM

MattP
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From: Kennesaw, Ga
Registered: Wed, Dec 10, 2008
Posts: 88
Skis At: Searching
Foot Forward: Left
Website

Re: Reflex bindings

I have a carbon plate for my set up. I have not had any problems with it. I have heard one story of someone having a bad release and the horse shoe ripped out the front of the carbon plate. But that sounds like a rare occurrence to me. In my opinion the carbon plate respects the natural flex of the ski more than the aluminum.


Looking for a place to ski near Kennesaw, Ga.
-MattP

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#7 Thu, Mar 11, 2010 4:15 AM

Jhughes
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Slalom Mentor
From: Chicago
Registered: Mon, Jan 7, 2008
Posts: 118
Skis At: Lake County, IL
Foot Forward: Right
Website

Re: Reflex bindings

This is an interesting thread because I used to figure hardshells = move to double boots. I'm definitely interested in the Reflex system if it's designed for an RTP setup. Might explore this possibility soon.

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#8 Thu, Mar 11, 2010 7:35 AM

HO410
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Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sat, Sep 29, 2007
Posts: 345
Skis At: Outlaw Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Reflex bindings

I remove my boots about once a month to check screws and such. When I do, there is always a fine layer of sand underneath. I would imagine that with a carbon plate, that sand could work it's way into the screw holes and start to slice apart the carbon fibers.

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#9 Thu, Mar 11, 2010 8:01 AM

SethStisher
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From: Charleston, SC
Registered: Fri, Oct 31, 2008
Posts: 33
Foot Forward: Lefty
Website

Re: Reflex bindings

Just an FYI, we sell aluminum and carbon plates, of course, and I can have either one and I use the aluminum plate.  In my opinion there is no loss in performance and it is without question going to hold up better over time.  I just don't see the need for you to spend the money.

As for a rear boot setup with the Reflex, I have included a picture of mine.  I use a rear sheel with no cuff and that is the best fit I have ever had without sacrificing releasability, my rear foot comes out in a timely manner when my front boot releases.  Take a look.  If you decide it is something you want to do, you can buy the rear boot or even the full setup at our site using the following link:  http://www.h2oproshop.com/reflex-binding-systems.html

http://h2osmosis.com/IMG/jpg/rear-reflex-seth2.jpg

Seth Stisher
The H2Oz Training Center and H2OProShop.com


Seth Stisher
seth@h2osmosis.com
www.h2oztrainingcenter.com and www.h2oproshop.com
Click here for virtual coaching:  www.proskicoach.com/pros/seth_stisher/

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#10 Thu, Mar 11, 2010 9:18 AM

skidream
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Regular
From: Colorado
Registered: Sat, May 17, 2008
Posts: 38
Skis At: Madison, Still Farm
Foot Forward: Left

Re: Reflex bindings

In respect to Rear toe plate skiers, is this the best hardshell pakage out there? I am on the GOODE setup now and can't wait to get rid of it due to the fact that the front boot comes off very easy!!

Seth: what is your thought on the carbon respecting the flex of the ski better than the aluminum? Have you tried both?


Warming up!!!

Ski Hard or Go Home!!

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#11 Thu, Mar 11, 2010 10:02 AM

HO410
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Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sat, Sep 29, 2007
Posts: 345
Skis At: Outlaw Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Reflex bindings

If the aluminum plate was locked down with machined holes at all points, it would monkey with the ski flex. But that is not how the plates are machined. You have slots at all four corners. First, this makes it much quicker to reposition the boot. Second, and germane to your question, allows the ski [screws] to move without having to move the corners of the plate. It's a slightly, although not by much, less developed version of Radar's floating plate design.

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#12 Thu, Mar 11, 2010 12:26 PM

MattP
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From: Kennesaw, Ga
Registered: Wed, Dec 10, 2008
Posts: 88
Skis At: Searching
Foot Forward: Left
Website

Re: Reflex bindings

Seth,
Do you have your rear shell mounted to a reflex rear plate? It just look a little different from what I am used to seeing.


Looking for a place to ski near Kennesaw, Ga.
-MattP

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#13 Thu, Mar 11, 2010 12:34 PM

ColinCanski
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From: Kent, England
Registered: Sat, May 17, 2008
Posts: 83
Skis At: Gosfield WSC
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Reflex bindings

Seth / Anyone

I'm considering the Reflex set up, let me explain my rationale.

I currently use a Driver front binding and RTP. I know I ski by using my upper body, rather than from ankles up. I also tail-ride the ski. I went snow skiing this year for the first time since I started water skiing. I had lessons for a week, and made rapid progress, and I put this down to applying some of the techniques from behind the boat as well as good instruction.

The biggest thing I llearnt whilst snow skiing was correct carving technique, by literally skiing from my toes up and keeping my weight over the front of the skis I could carve really well on most terrain, (2 weeks later my shins are still bruised!).  I would ski at my best when I was conscious of the skis changing from one edge to the other right underneath me. I think this was mostly due  to using decent skis and most importantly the hard shell boots.

Two questions:

If I were to use the Reflex set up, is it likely will I get that similar postive feeling of edge change as I felt with snow boots
What other benefits do Reflex hard shells bring?


Ski to Live - Live to Ski

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#14 Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:26 PM

JABidwell
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Registered: Sat, May 3, 2008
Posts: 1
Skis At: 15 off
Foot Forward: left

Re: Reflex bindings

I'm on a Reflex front with an aluminum plate, the rear is an XL Wiley.  Before I was on dual Large Wileys.  I went with XL so my foot would come out easier in a crash, so far has worked fine for me.

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#15 Sun, Mar 14, 2010 6:29 AM

SethStisher
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Pro Skier
From: Charleston, SC
Registered: Fri, Oct 31, 2008
Posts: 33
Foot Forward: Lefty
Website

Re: Reflex bindings

Ski Dream:
I agree with HO410.  The biggest difference in the aluminum plate on the Reflex versus Radar and HO is that there are no bushings on the Reflex plate so the plate will not theoretically float as freely.  I have tried both the aluminum and the carbon and I will be honest, I can't feel the difference...perhaps a small placebo effect, but that's it.  And yes, I would say it is the best setup out there (hands down) for RTP skiers, but also great for those of us with double boots.

MattP:
I have my rear boot on an aluminum D3 plate that I just drilled in order to mount my ski.  I did it about a year and a half ago when we didn't have the rear Reflex plates yet.  I have just never bothered to change it.  Originally I had a texta mono-plate (the white plate), but broke it and we now only sell aluminum plates and carbon plates for the Reflex.  I don't think Reflex even offers the texta option anymore.  I may put my boots on carbon this year, but I don't expect any great change in performance.  i will also be trying the HO EXO setup as soon as I get one.  I like the way it looks as well.

ColinCanski:
SO, I think the Reflex or any hardshell will definitely give you more of an ability to feel what you are referring to versus rubber boots, but not in the same way that ski boots (snow) do.  Snow ski boots are obviously higher and stiffer fore and aft.  I think you can transfer energy into the skis a little more with that stiffer, higher boot in snow ski boots.  I ultimately think that was a great experience for you to feel that on the snow which will give you something to shoot for on water.  IT will never feel identical, but I think some of the reason the boot design is differenet and that we never fully grasp the feeling you talked about on the snow is from constantly leaning against the rope (which allows you to have the "back foot" feeling without falling on your a--.  On snow skis if you leaned back to the degree we do on the water and in the manner that most people do on the water, you would fall...period.  The rope allows us to get away with this unbalanced weight distribution in water skiing, so we think we are killing it at times when we are being really efficient.
Anyway, that's a segue to technique which wasn't what you were asking for.  To directly answer your question about boots, I really think hardshells in some form are necessary for you to get the value of working on technique where this feeling is some of your focus.  Feel the ki under you especially during the edge change and the approach to the turn, then ride that same ski back into the centerline.

Hope this helps.

SEth


Seth Stisher
seth@h2osmosis.com
www.h2oztrainingcenter.com and www.h2oproshop.com
Click here for virtual coaching:  www.proskicoach.com/pros/seth_stisher/

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#16 Sun, Mar 14, 2010 4:51 PM

2gofaster
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Slalom Mentor
From: Cypress, Tx
Registered: Sun, Jun 1, 2008
Posts: 337

Re: Reflex bindings

Seth, What's the smallest Exo and Reflex? I need to get someone who is coming off an achiles injury out of rubber bindings and into a positive release binding and she wears a women's size 6.


Shane Hill

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#17 Mon, Mar 15, 2010 6:18 AM

TaddSchreiber
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Pro Skier
From: Talking Rock, GA
Registered: Fri, Mar 7, 2008
Posts: 12
Skis At: Whitestone Lakes
Foot Forward: Right
Website

Re: Reflex bindings

2gofaster,

The small the Reflex comes in is a size 4 shell, which most likely will fit the girl you are talking about, as well, the Exos are going to come in in a size 4/5 as well.  BEst thing to do, when you are ready is the measure the foot and get the exact measurement "inches or cm" and I could figure out what size you need.  As well, from what I have heard from HO, is, they have size 8-10 in right now, and they are being shipped to dealers now, but the smaller (4-7) and bigger (11-13) are not going to be available until May.  That is what HO told me last week.
Either way, if you need something, let me know and I will do my best to help you out.
Thanks
TS
tadd at h2osmosis dot com
H2OProshop.com
866.213.7993

Last edited by TaddSchreiber (Mon, Mar 15, 2010 6:18 AM)

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#18 Mon, Mar 15, 2010 1:43 PM

Shark
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Slasher
From: the shores of Sproat Lake
Registered: Wed, Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 78
Website

Re: Reflex bindings

Ladies 6 would use the smallest boot shell mold. For us that's the junior 35-57 (Sz 4-5) which is what we ship to Natallia or Whitney for example.  We got a Berdnikava signature pink/white boot coming this summer should be cool.

The Silvretta release is used by us (FM) and Reflex is designed for snow ski boots which are more beefy than your typical water ski boot. The DIN starts at 4 which is a big number for water skiing. The quality/stoutness of the boot shell and liner determines how high a release can be set. We recommend no more than 5 for adult slalom. Coming off an injury I would make sure that the boot design is stable for no pre-release but can still come out easy to prevent re-injury.

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#19 Tue, Mar 23, 2010 7:31 PM

BrianM
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From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Mon, May 18, 2009
Posts: 35
Skis At: the cottage
Foot Forward: Right
Website

Re: Reflex bindings

My interest in the Reflex bindings has been peaked.  I'm wondering what the difference is between the R-Style rear binding and the complete rear binding.  I see the the reflex site sells the complete double setup but it's not on the h2oproshop.

I like the feel of full double high wraps and love my drafts.  I think it's just a matter of time though before I have a bad fall and the drafts don't feel so comfortable anymore.

Brian

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#20 Wed, Mar 24, 2010 7:00 AM

HO410
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Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sat, Sep 29, 2007
Posts: 345
Skis At: Outlaw Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Reflex bindings

The R-style boot you see at H2osmosis is just the lower shell with a liner. This of it as a super toe loop. Yes, on the Reflex site they do have a double-boot with double-silveretta release listed. I am aware that there are a few people running boots like that, but I think it's on the site more because it's a possibility than because it is what they would recommend to people.

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#21 Thu, Apr 1, 2010 6:30 PM

BudMan
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Slalom Mentor
From: Sandy Run, SC (Near Columbia)
Registered: Tue, Nov 24, 2009
Posts: 126
Skis At: Bud Lake
Foot Forward: Left

Re: Reflex bindings

For what it is worth; I have been using HO Animal, front and back. The older white ones, maybe 2001??? My feet (especially the rear) cramp when cinched. Therefore, this winter I chose to ski with them loose. I had been off the water for over three years, so nothing seemed familiar. I rode a lot of skies this winter to determine what I would buy to replace my old 2000 CDX Adrenaline. The new technology now is so awesome. Any way I have decided on the HO A1. I have ordered the EXO PRO boots, so I thought I should cinch my bindings to start getting somewhat prepared for when the new come in.
Now to my point; there is a night and day difference in the added control over the ski. It has been a mistake for me to ski with loose bindings and sacrifice the control. I agree with Seth. Of course the down fall is my rear foot goes from uncomfortable to excruciating painful then to numb with no chance to run a pass way too fast. My foot definitely gives out before my body. Of course at age 53, my body always gives out before my spirit.


Life is great! Enjoy every minute!

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#22 Fri, May 14, 2010 1:51 PM

treyskier
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Rookie
From: Olive Branch, MS
Registered: Tue, Jan 20, 2009
Posts: 2
Skis At: Summers Place Ski Club
Foot Forward: Left
Website

Re: Reflex bindings

I just received my Reflex hardshell on the small carbon monoplate. I have a D3 RTP and have mounted it, but my toes actually touch the release mechanism. I have the toe plate as far back as it goes. Is there anything else I can do?

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#23 Fri, May 14, 2010 2:06 PM

skidream
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Regular
From: Colorado
Registered: Sat, May 17, 2008
Posts: 38
Skis At: Madison, Still Farm
Foot Forward: Left

Re: Reflex bindings

treyskier wrote:

I just received my Reflex hardshell on the small carbon monoplate. I have a D3 RTP and have mounted it, but my toes actually touch the release mechanism. I have the toe plate as far back as it goes. Is there anything else I can do?

I am RTP as well and thought that this would be an issue. The first time I put my rear foot in my toes touched as well.  I have about 7 sets on the boot now and to be honest I never notice it.  I had the boot release once and my rear foot came out first!!

You could always get a rear toe plate that is smaller so that your foot doesn't go as far in the loop but is still snug? But I love my Reflex binding just wish the liner was bit more padded...I'm sure I could get a better liner down the road.


Warming up!!!

Ski Hard or Go Home!!

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#24 Fri, May 14, 2010 2:16 PM

treyskier
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Rookie
From: Olive Branch, MS
Registered: Tue, Jan 20, 2009
Posts: 2
Skis At: Summers Place Ski Club
Foot Forward: Left
Website

Re: Reflex bindings

Thanks. I am glad to know that I am not the only one. I was thinking of snugging up the rear toe, but I will try it first. Thanks again.

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#25 Sun, May 23, 2010 9:14 AM

ColinCanski
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Slasher
From: Kent, England
Registered: Sat, May 17, 2008
Posts: 83
Skis At: Gosfield WSC
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Reflex bindings

So after 20 sets I finally got to test the release mechanism on my Reflex hard shell coming out of two, by initiating the classic OTF at 34mph. It released fine. (It wouldn't have needed to release if I hadn't stamped on the front of the ski with all my weight as I was about to hook up). The wife wants to know where the big bruise on my knee came from. I dunno!

Funnily enough, earlier whilst on the dock, putting on my ski, I had actually  considered whether the RTP would interfere with the release mechanism, being so close. No such worries.

So after the OTF, I dusted myself off, and then went  on to ski a season's best by three buoys. So as too avoid that 'amazing high to suicidal low' feeling I went out for a ride around on a pair of jump skis for my last set.

Can't wait to go ski Wednesday evening and do it again. wink


Ski to Live - Live to Ski

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