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Rear boot vs. toe piece / Pro Ski Coach Water Ski Forum
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#1 Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:03 PM

t8skier
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Regular
From: Arlington, Tn
Registered: Sun, Jun 21, 2009
Posts: 32
Skis At: Collierville Ski Club, Tn
Foot Forward: Right

Rear boot vs. toe piece

I have been skiing with a rear boot for years.  I have the back boot angled to the left (RFF).  I am thinking that if a went to a rear toe piece it would free me up and allow my body to be more relaxed.  I tried it a couple days last year and gave it up.  I felt like I had no control.
What are the advantages / disadvantages for each?

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#2 Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:14 PM

miski
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Slalom Mentor
From: Saline, MI
Registered: Wed, May 21, 2008
Posts: 114
Skis At: Jepawhit, Lyons, SkiTec
Foot Forward: Left

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

I liked rear binding and now boot because it seems to place your foot more consistently (fore-aft & angle) than a toe piece - but, I run my rear binding cuff very loose and get ~.5" of heal lift at apex. Also, even w/ looser buckles, you still get some side loading through rear boot as oposed to edge control w/ only front - especially on off-side.

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#3 Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:34 PM

Pl0tz
Karma:   12 
Slalom Mentor
From: Virginia
Registered: Fri, Nov 13, 2009
Posts: 181
Skis At: Lake Anna's "hot side"
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

i've been thinking about the same thing. was planning on re-trying the RTP this spring. used to use it all the time an i loved it! but now i have a binding. my problem with it is i always want to wear it super loose. so I'm not sure if I'm defeating the purpose of the rear boot or not... based on what miski said probably not so much... BUT either way. just know/remember it takes about a week or so to get used the switch. So if you give it a try, ski with it for more than just a couple passes :]

-plotz

Last edited by Pl0tz (Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:38 PM)


i swear this site is turning into my home...

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#4 Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:47 PM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

I believe it's more of a personal preference kinda thing...

I know I am totally partial to Dbl. Boots (Bindings) But, the Brit's are very partial to the t/straps... If someone had ankle problems the freedom of the t/s might be a true benefit. It will often allow for better fwd. angle of the rear lower leg. Which can help with tip pres. and counter rotation. I used to love to dock or shore start with one! It's sure a lot easier to get in/out of. WTS, that could also come back to bite you if you have a hard fall and your front foot doesn 't release. (that could still happen with Dbl. boots as well...) They are also cheaper! -ha,ha... Andy Mapple swears by them! -what else needs to be said!!!smile (some Pro's prefer them as well..)

I like the solid connection to my ski that Dbl. boots provide. I feel confident with the feel and the performance. I like the response as well. I've never had my rear foot fly out of the boot during a rushed turn. But, I have with a t/strap and the result was another rib injury... Oh, and the Dbl. boots look so much better! Ya know, Style points baby!big_smile


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#5 Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:51 PM

HO410
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sat, Sep 29, 2007
Posts: 345
Skis At: Outlaw Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

Marcus talked about this at length in, I think, last week's podcast.

If you aren't comfortable with your current binder setup, or if you are just curious, give a loop a try. Heck, you probably already have one, or know someone that does. Give it time, and take it easy at the beginning; adding intensity as your comfort level expands. Just don't forget to also take it easy when or if you go back to the full rear boot.

The one thing I think I think is that you have to be more technically sound with double boots, I think.

Last edited by HO410 (Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:57 PM)

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#6 Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:22 PM

vrod69
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Regular
From: Broomfield,CO
Registered: Fri, Jan 22, 2010
Posts: 41
Skis At: carter lake,co
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

Well I am no pro, just beginning ski last season. I started with a toe plate and it was fine for a while but I was given a ski with double boots and it was a night and day difference for me. I felt more secure to the ski wasn't fighting with my back foot to get it in the right spot, and I felt like I had more control of the ski. So I like having the double boot.
good luck


Just about to get on the water, WAHOOO!!
Bj

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#7 Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:42 PM

tjo
Karma:   
Slalom Mentor
From: Draper, UT
Registered: Wed, Apr 23, 2008
Posts: 197
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

I've skied on double boots for 25 years.  Tried an RTP about 3 years ago out of necessity (borrowed ski), because I had an opportunity to ski at OWC while traveling.  It was a horrible feeling for me...I hated it.  I'm sure over time I could get used to it, but I just like the secure feeling to my ski that the double boots provide. 

As pointed out by dawg, the only thing that would appeal to me about he RTP is the dock start option...especially when the water is cold! 

It's obviously personal preference because there are skiers at the top of the sport using both options, although more seem to use the double boot.


Travis Ogden

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#8 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:53 AM

condi74
Karma:   
Local
From: Perth Western Australia
Registered: Wed, Feb 25, 2009
Posts: 7
Skis At: Bonney's Ski Park
Foot Forward: right

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

I have worn knees from years of other sports and a bad ankle on my rear (left) foot I switched to double boots two years ago and am a firm fan, with the knees I like the secure feeling and the two feet in or two feet out aspect and the extra support really helps my ankle.

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#9 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:31 PM

Galejan
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Slasher
From: Nyköping-Sweden
Registered: Sat, Nov 8, 2008
Posts: 66
Skis At: Tunsättersjön
Foot Forward: left

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

I started with RTP but i had to concentrate to have my back foot in a good position, so i switched to dubbel boots.
Now i dont have to think on were my back foot is, its to much to think on as it is....this season i going from dbl venom to dbl powershells, see if i can handle that  :-)

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#10 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:40 PM

Brady
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Regular
From: Poughkeepsie, NY
Registered: Fri, Mar 27, 2009
Posts: 20
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

I learned with a RTP and went to double HO Animals 2 years ago.  I definately felt more connected to the ski, but it just didn't feel right to me.  I can get better position over the ski with the RTP and I seem to ski looser, which works for me.  Bottom line - try both and stick with what works.

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#11 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 2:33 AM

Andyb
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Regular
Registered: Sat, Apr 5, 2008
Posts: 28

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

I'm been a rtp for years now, but about to give the double boot a try. Currently ski RS1 66"and a radar rail+rtp. Just picked up a second hand Rs1 boot so going to put the Rail on the back. Going from RTP to double boot; do I need to move the bindings? HOw long before I know wheather it is working for me or not?

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#12 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:06 AM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

I'd suggest running the Rail as loose as possible at 1st. As your heel will not have the freedom of movement it may be used to. Be patient, I know how hard it would be for me to change back to an rtp... Unfortunately, until you get used to it and put it out of your mind, you'll never be able to give it a true evaluation. Because, your focus will be divided and you wont be on auto pilot and just skiing...

Good luck!


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#13 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:47 AM

Andyb
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Registered: Sat, Apr 5, 2008
Posts: 28

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

Thanks h20dawg, so you have gone from double boot back to rtp ? If so for what reason, will the double boot stop too much movement ?

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#14 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:31 AM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

I was forced to while using or testing someone elses equip. many times in the past and it was very tough to adjust to because, I practically cut my teeth on dbl's! But, yes you will find that your heel will not move around, L-R or up and Dn. very much in the dbl's. -For me, this is a good thing. I want my rear foot pretty nailed down. Especially when I sometimes  have to really put my rear foot into a turn...

Just guessing, but dbl's must seem better for the majority, as it seems like most pro's and competing amateurs prefer them. (only a guess though!)


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#15 Wed, Mar 31, 2010 11:09 AM

CoreyHumburg
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Pro Skier
From: Bumpass
Registered: Fri, Dec 4, 2009
Posts: 12
Skis At: The Farm
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

I have been a RTP skier my whole life.  I remember as a kid having an inferiority complex because I thought that all the really good skiers used double boots, as they did in my family.  I then learned that Andy Mapple uses a RTP and since he is the undisputed slalom god, I did not feel inferior anymore.  Don't feel bad RTP skiers, you are in good company, current World Champion and Masters Champion Will Asher is a RTP guy too.

I have tried double boots a few times over the years and they have always felt far too restricting.  I like to lift my heel at will and don't plan on ever using a double boot.


I believe in 3 things: Peace, Love & Waterskiing.

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#16 Wed, Mar 31, 2010 10:01 PM

Shark
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Slasher
From: the shores of Sproat Lake
Registered: Wed, Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 78
Website

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

You have more control over the ski - into the onside turn,  with a rear boot of some sort. Obviously not a requirement to have a rear boot but I think it's a more satisfying ride.

Rough conditions, colossal winds, cold weather, big lake skiing - for sure the double boot.

I ride a hybrid rear (open toe, elastic lacing) as does Jon Travers and many others we build for.

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#17 Thu, Apr 8, 2010 10:18 AM

Andyb
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Regular
Registered: Sat, Apr 5, 2008
Posts: 28

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

Shark

I looked on your website and couldn't see this hybrid rtp or am I looking at it ?

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#18 Tue, May 11, 2010 2:41 PM

t8skier
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Regular
From: Arlington, Tn
Registered: Sun, Jun 21, 2009
Posts: 32
Skis At: Collierville Ski Club, Tn
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

I tried the rtp early this year. I did not care much for it and went to a modified back boot.  A boot with the cuff removed and buckled loose.  I was forced to use my brothers ski with a rtp because mine was down for repair.  first set I could not run a pass.  The second set I was back to skiing a normal buoy count.  Watching it on video, I like my body position. I was softer in the turns.
The rear boot is like a bad relationship. Even if it is not good for you, you go back because it is comfortable.  I have divorced the rear boot and have a new girlfriend (RTP)!

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#19 Thu, May 13, 2010 7:16 PM

horne38
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Regular
Registered: Thu, May 28, 2009
Posts: 11
Skis At: Lone Rock
Foot Forward: right

Re: Rear boot vs. toe piece

I am looking to get a RTP. But I have wide feet so I am wondering if anyone knows if a Wileys or a HO is wider.
I feel the same as some on this post that the RTP will give me a wider range of motion and a smoother turn.  Its all about balance.

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