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Rossi Gates / Pro Ski Coach Water Ski Forum
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#1 Wed, Nov 4, 2009 4:16 PM

tlambert001
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Rookie
Registered: Mon, Apr 13, 2009
Posts: 2

Rossi Gates

I just saw the video of Chris on the new Strata ski. Awesome skiing Chris!  I noticed on your pull out for the gates that your ski seems to rock back as you pull out.  Is this something you are doing differently? 

Thanks,

Tony

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#2 Wed, Nov 4, 2009 4:50 PM

b-rad19
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Rookie
From: Lafayette, LA
Registered: Fri, Mar 7, 2008
Posts: 2
Skis At: University of Louisiana-Lafayette
Foot Forward: righty

Re: Rossi Gates

pretty sure it helps him get free from the boat...

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#3 Sat, Dec 5, 2009 11:23 AM

crdickey
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Regular
Registered: Wed, May 23, 2007
Posts: 37

Re: Rossi Gates

Looks a bit like Wade Cox did in his CDX video days. Front of the ski is up and out of the water and kinda looks like a windshield wiper as it lays over. Chris looks like he is trying to have very little body movement than he has before. Not stiff but quiet. He looks like he's in great shape throughout the course and at every line length. Awesome skiing!

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#4 Sun, Dec 6, 2009 8:28 AM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: Rossi Gates

Ya, I would Love to hear Chris explain the Dynamic of this move...

I will say that I was staying way too far fwd. over the ski in a effort to "stay balanced", but I was a times struggling with smooth pull outs and turn ins. I was ragged and inconsistant and a couple times almost fell during a hard lean pull out!

Matt Rini brought to my attention that I needed to get back on my back foot more prior to my pull out and to duplcate this move on my turn in. It made a great differance in my consistancy and leverage. I just wish the season hadn't ended, so I could work with it some more.

I like what I see Chris doing and I would like to better understand the technique...

Maybe Rossi and Rini will comment!smile


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#5 Mon, Dec 7, 2009 5:24 AM

2gofaster
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Slalom Mentor
From: Cypress, Tx
Registered: Sun, Jun 1, 2008
Posts: 337

Re: Rossi Gates

He's said before on here that the way he does it helps him to get the ski free and rotate under him at the turn in.


Shane Hill

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#6 Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:26 AM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: Rossi Gates

The Biggest reason that I would like a Little more insight on this is because it seems like I hear over and over,  people saying "ya gotta get off the back of the ski,"  "tail turners" and "stay Balanced at all costs," "get up over the front of the ski more" etc, etc...

This move that Chris is doing is obviously unique or so many people would not have commented on it on this and other sites. By applying a little more back foot he not only does a "Tail turn" but he does so while staying Balanced. And this is done @ the most important part of his run. (the pull out & turn in) I think it's cool and deserves a 2nd Look from most of us and maybe a little more in depth explanation of the cause/effect advantage of this move from the Pro's...smile


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#7 Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:04 AM

StevenHaines
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Slalom Mentor
From: Canyon Lake Ca.
Registered: Mon, Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 152
Skis At: Canyon Lake, Ca.
Foot Forward: right
Website

Re: Rossi Gates

I sometimes end up doing that, but when I do it though, I end up too heavily weighted on my back foot, too narrow on my pull out and on a straight path to one ball! I'd be real interested to hear the theory behind it and how he gets it done "cuz the way I'm doing it just aint right!!!  LOL! So far the only thing that works consistently is to get up on the front of the ski like Dawg is saying.

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#8 Tue, Dec 8, 2009 5:39 PM

ChrisRossi
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Pro Skier
From: Orlando
Registered: Tue, May 15, 2007
Posts: 506
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Rossi Gates

My goal with gates is to accelerate from the starting point.  I used to focus on falling away (more forward) and catching the boats load when I reached the bottom of my fall.  This works fine but I found that my speed was developing too late so I was ending up too wide on the boat.  I focus now on getting into my accelerating position before starting my out for the gates.  Standing more center to back, engaging my hips forward, torquing from the trailing arm, and attempting to leave my ski more out in front of me during the first stage of the gate sets me up with a better line.

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#9 Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:56 AM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: Rossi Gates

ChrisRossi wrote:

My goal with gates is to accelerate from the starting point.  I used to focus on falling away (more forward) and catching the boats load when I reached the bottom of my fall.  This works fine but I found that my speed was developing too late so I was ending up too wide on the boat.  I focus now on getting into my accelerating position before starting my out for the gates.  Standing more center to back, engaging my hips forward, torquing from the trailing arm, and attempting to leave my ski more out in front of me during the first stage of the gate sets me up with a better line.

VERY COOL!

That was well written and thus makes a ton of sense.

Thanks, Chris!smile


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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#10 Wed, Dec 9, 2009 7:55 PM

danbirch
Karma:   11 
Slasher
From: Canyon Lake, CA
Registered: Mon, Nov 24, 2008
Posts: 75
Skis At: Canyon Lake, CA
Foot Forward: Left

Re: Rossi Gates

ChrisRossi wrote:

My goal with gates is to accelerate from the starting point.  I used to focus on falling away (more forward) and catching the boats load when I reached the bottom of my fall.  This works fine but I found that my speed was developing too late so I was ending up too wide on the boat.  I focus now on getting into my accelerating position before starting my out for the gates.  Standing more center to back, engaging my hips forward, torquing from the trailing arm, and attempting to leave my ski more out in front of me during the first stage of the gate sets me up with a better line.

Hi Chris, I am a little confused.  Where is the "starting point"?  By "first stage" of the gates do you mean the beginning of your pull-out?  I haven't heard these terms used.  How many stages are there for the gates?

Does standing more Center to back mean shifting your weight more on your back foot? 

Is torquing the trailing arm the same as loading your right arm?

Thank you very much. I appreciate your help!

-Dan

Last edited by danbirch (Wed, Dec 9, 2009 7:56 PM)

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#11 Fri, Dec 11, 2009 7:44 AM

ChrisRossi
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Pro Skier
From: Orlando
Registered: Tue, May 15, 2007
Posts: 506
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Rossi Gates

The starting point is the spot you stand in before edging out for the gates.  For me, it is as close to the wakes as possible without being in the dip.  You should not be standing out in the whitewash created from the spray of the boat.  I place 60% of my weight on my back foot before starting my edge out.  This allows my right hip to be forward with my legs fairly straight.  I focus on having my right hip connected to the handle and when I want to start my edge out, I transition to my right hand (torque) and think about keeping the ski out in front of me while powering the left edge of the ski.  We want to be able to ski out on a tight line, so by keeping the ski more out in front of me, I keep the ski on a more realistic trajectory. 

The first stage of my gate is from the starting point to the edge change out for my gates.  We normally edge change in the course at the second wake.  My thought with the gates is that we are already starting wide of our preferred edge change location (2nd wake) so I am trying to get my speed and direction set earlier (first stage gets shorter in duration).  This gives me more time to ski away from the boat on my turning edge which helps me to keep a tight line and be able to roll in with speed.

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#12 Fri, Dec 11, 2009 8:59 AM

StevenHaines
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Slalom Mentor
From: Canyon Lake Ca.
Registered: Mon, Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 152
Skis At: Canyon Lake, Ca.
Foot Forward: right
Website

Re: Rossi Gates

Thanks for the detailed explanation, but how do I do this without ending up feeling like I'm on a wheelie which ends up giving me an in-efficient pull out and a bad line to one ball? Obviously I'm on my rear foot too much.

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#13 Fri, Dec 11, 2009 10:30 AM

HO410
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Slalom Mentor
Registered: Sat, Sep 29, 2007
Posts: 345
Skis At: Outlaw Lake
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Rossi Gates

Chris, is this more or less what you're going for.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yw_Sd05ENc

If I remember correctly, there was a pretty stiff tailwind, so it's not the best example out there. Jerry, builds speed in a quick burst and then just kind of floats out to the apex, leaving the ski free to generate the angle he needs for -38', -39', and -41'

Is this change to your gate to be more consistent with your body position in the course? Or were you finding that the late speed made it difficult to get the ski to release and turn like you wanted it to?

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#14 Fri, Dec 11, 2009 12:12 PM

Deke
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Slalom Mentor
From: Telluride, CO
Registered: Thu, Apr 3, 2008
Posts: 126
Skis At: 15/34
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Rossi Gates

StevenHaines wrote:

Thanks for the detailed explanation, but how do I do this without ending up feeling like I'm on a wheelie which ends up giving me an in-efficient pull out and a bad line to one ball? Obviously I'm on my rear foot too much.

Steven,
Schnitz talked about something similar a few years back and I asked him "how do I weight my back foot while maintaining hips forward?"  He explained it like this...  Stand one foot in front of the other.  Move your hips forward over your front foot.  Now, without moving your hips or leaning back, lift your front foot.  Your hips are forward AND your back foot is weighted!  My own way of thinking about it is to stand with both feet together, then take a step forward.  What happens?  As you "fall" forward your weight is on your back foot but your hips are (moving) forward.  The point being, it is not a "pose" but rather a "move."
Deke

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#15 Fri, Dec 11, 2009 12:34 PM

StevenHaines
Karma:   11 
Slalom Mentor
From: Canyon Lake Ca.
Registered: Mon, Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 152
Skis At: Canyon Lake, Ca.
Foot Forward: right
Website

Re: Rossi Gates

Deke,
I see what you're saying. That'll be interesting to try. I have to say though, I'm a little hesitant, I've been working real hard on getting my C.O.M. up on the front of the front of the ski. Anytime that I end up with my weight to the back, I just get screwed!!! Either I end up with in-adequate width or I stall the ski. I understand the principle and realize that I'm only doing this on the pull out, I guess I just need to try to employ it! I could use a bit more consistency in my gates. cool

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#16 Fri, Dec 11, 2009 2:22 PM

Deke
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Slalom Mentor
From: Telluride, CO
Registered: Thu, Apr 3, 2008
Posts: 126
Skis At: 15/34
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Rossi Gates

Steven, I hear ya.  Maybe try not to think about your COM as where your weight is.  You can have pressure or drive coming from either foot but still be "leading" with your COM.  I think the rope is what really messes everyone up since you have a tendency to want to lean back on it rather than use it as a constant (like gravity).  I've been skiing and skating a bunch lately and it is really driving this point home for me. 

One thing I played with a lot last summer was... when just skiing behind the boat, I would try and see how much pressure I could put on either my front or back foot without changing anything to my upper body posture.  Just freeze your upper body with a solid core and alternately push on either foot to see what it feels like.  It's just one more thing to do when you get stood up at two ball and you have to ride to the end.
Deke

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#17 Sun, Dec 13, 2009 7:50 AM

StevenHaines
Karma:   11 
Slalom Mentor
From: Canyon Lake Ca.
Registered: Mon, Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 152
Skis At: Canyon Lake, Ca.
Foot Forward: right
Website

Re: Rossi Gates

I can already tell that I'm gonna struggle with this one! LOL I too try to focus on weighting over the feet, but my focus (while riding behind the boat) is to get my hips forward and stand on the front foot. I guess what I'm going for is to feel that connection of core to the handle. I guess that we all have to find the things that work for us and try to expand on that. The times that I end up  on the back foot in the pull out is when I have screwed up on the first move to initiate the pull out. Maybe I would have better success if I was actually trying to do this in a controlled manner.

Is winter over yet?  I know, that's a pretty lame comment coming from someone in California! LOL I really hate drysuits!!!

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#18 Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:24 AM

miski
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Slalom Mentor
From: Saline, MI
Registered: Wed, May 21, 2008
Posts: 114
Skis At: Jepawhit, Lyons, SkiTec
Foot Forward: Left

Re: Rossi Gates

I think one thing to think about here is important - if you are on your front foot and make a move, it very easy to end up on your back foot, and I think the opposite is also true, that if you're mass biased to your rear foot, it is easy to move off that foot and transfer load to your front foot.

I was trying to get hips forward and weight on my front foot from the start of my pullout through the gate turn (and hopefully the full pass), but it was really difficult to stay there through the turn in and beyond.  Then I tried to get balanced front-to-rear at the end of the pull-out, and then continue forward onto front foot for turn in, and it was much easier to get a good amount weight onto my front foot and keep it there... Maybe Chris is finding it that much easier to get weight forward for the turn-in having started w/ a more rearward bias.

Deke makes a good recommendation too – a lot of time skiing straight before or after pass, I just step from front to rear and back repeatedly. It raises your consciousness of load on both feet and how the ski attitude changes with weight distribution. You can shift the weight slower and faster to feel the dynamics - you can get way more load on either foot the faster you change load - all w/o really moving your upper body. I think this helps me get a better feel for the weight shift from the edge change to the buoy too.

Also, I think if you're legs are compressed and rear biased, and then stepping rear to front and standing up really puts you up on the front. I think I caught something like this in one of the pro’s articles this year. If you stand up, the distance between your CG and your ski increases which means the drag on your ski produces additional forward pitching moment helping you get forward.

In the end, when I have skied my best, the weight shift was pretty small and I felt like I was balanced evenly the whole pass, but having a good feel for the weight transfer seemed to help me.

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#19 Mon, Dec 14, 2009 7:19 AM

ChrisRossi
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Pro Skier
From: Orlando
Registered: Tue, May 15, 2007
Posts: 506
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Rossi Gates

For a right foot forward skier, if you are too front foot heavy in your stance for the gates, you will not be able to edge change early enough to ride a tight rope out to the apex.  Most skiers think they want to be really free from the boat to turn.  This is not the case.  What you are looking for is a tight rope (no bow in the line from pylon to handle) while you are extending away in the pre-turn.  At apex, you will feel tension from the pylon that will start to pull your inside hip forward, and you will slide into the handle.  There is zero rotation from the upper body as you ski into the power triangle.

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#20 Mon, Dec 14, 2009 5:16 PM

tlambert001
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Rookie
Registered: Mon, Apr 13, 2009
Posts: 2

Re: Rossi Gates

Chris,
Thanks for all of your thoughts on your gates.  I started the initial question because it seemed like you were doing something a little different than you had been.  It is nice to hear your thoughts behind what you are doing, because it helps me think more about what I am trying to do and hopefully put it to good use when it warms up in the spring.

Tony

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#21 Tue, Dec 15, 2009 6:36 AM

h20dawg79
Karma:   10 
Water Ski Sage
From: nashville,tn.
Registered: Fri, Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 562
Skis At: Old Hickory Lake, TN.
Foot Forward: left

Re: Rossi Gates

Steven,

All we can do is optimistically try everything that seems reasonable and hope for the Best... One thing about Slalom is Everyone is different to lesser or Greater degrees. So, there is very little if anything about personal style or technique that applies to everyone across the Board.

Chris ski's like Chris.  Like Andy, he surely has taken a page or two from a lot of different people along the way and mixed those pages with his own discoveries and personal style to create his still evolving present style and technique. (even Andy's style seems to still be evolving due to age, equip., injuries or???)

These Forums are so cool. I'm sure most of us don't even begin to understand or appreciate the value of these open forums, Q&A's with the Pro's, peers, etc... As opposed to just Gutting it out day in and day out without the internet, web sites and youtube like the La point Bro's and others way back in the day!!!


"Warning" -the Surgeon General has determined; That the preceding statements accurately reflect the views and opinions consistent with "DSS" (Delusional Slalomitis Syndrome) a highly contagious life altering condition... (Handle with Extreme care & Patience)

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