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Reflex hard shell bindings / Pro Ski Coach Water Ski Forum
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#1 Mon, Sep 28, 2009 1:50 AM

pavle
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Registered: Sun, Aug 2, 2009
Posts: 4

Reflex hard shell bindings

Hi!
Does anyone have experience with Reflex hard shell bindings? I read some reviews, but I would like to hear from the users.
I currently have Connelly Drafts 2008, and they are good, but I had couple of sprained ankles recently during a fall. Reflex system looks good (I'm a snow skier as well so I know how the system works with releasing the binding), but I would like to know how it reacts during a fall or is it tight enough. I ski couple of bouys on 12 m so I guess I need something tight and good.
Thanks a lot!
Pavle

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#2 Mon, Sep 28, 2009 5:20 PM

MattP
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From: Kennesaw, Ga
Registered: Wed, Dec 10, 2008
Posts: 88
Skis At: Searching
Foot Forward: Left
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Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

I have been on the reflex system going on one year now and I have nothing but good things to say about it! I went from O'Brien Contact binding to the reflex it totally changed the way I felt the water under my ski. It helped with the control of the ski also.  I have never had the binding pre release going across the wakes or in a turn. Every time in a fall it released when it was supposed to.

Pavle what do you mean by the binding being tight enough?


Looking for a place to ski near Kennesaw, Ga.
-MattP

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#3 Mon, Sep 28, 2009 11:46 PM

pavle
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Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

Hi!
By tight enough I mean keeping the foot firmly in its place - not letting the ankle move inside the binding. Similar to snow ski boot.
Thanks,
Pavle

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#4 Tue, Sep 29, 2009 2:19 AM

slam2ball
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Registered: Thu, Aug 27, 2009
Posts: 23
Foot Forward: RFF

Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

ive been on Reflex for about 2 years, thanks to them im back on the water after a serious ankle injury. nothing but great statements.
id be interested to know if your using double or toe loop setup?

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#5 Thu, Oct 1, 2009 6:43 AM

pavle
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Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

I'm using double boot setup.

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#6 Thu, Oct 1, 2009 7:14 AM

WadeWilliams
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From: Lynn, MA
Registered: Tue, May 15, 2007
Posts: 1087
Skis At: Not short enough
Foot Forward: Right
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Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

I've never used the Reflex system but I have set some up with some skiers -- in my experience I have never been able to get the double-reflex boot positioned with the two feet close enough to one another. The release unit for the front boot gets in the way. Running your boots as close together as possible is an important factor in ski setup. You certainly don't want more than 1 inch between the boots. Hopefully you have them set up better than I could get the double-reflex system with regard to feet spacing ?

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#7 Wed, Oct 7, 2009 5:01 AM

slam2ball
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Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

Wade your bang on with the foot spacing issue!!
But I have found a way around this…

Last year I ran with over and inch between toe and heal, with ok results…..
The release mechanism needs enough space/clearance to work safely.
If the heal is too close to the mechanism it will not open up/ pivot over and you will not get a clean release...

I found the reflex bindings to be very flat and wasn’t getting the desired flex through the ankle.
They recently made something called a “spacer”. I put 2 of these on top of each other then screwed the release mech where the cross scew and bolt is. This allowed the heal/mech to be lifted a small amount.
You don’t notice the difference in fact I found it quite natural.

I originally done this for the flex issue (looked at snow ski boots that force you to bend your knee/ankle)
But when the “spacers” went in I noticed there was a lot more clearance to shift the rear foot forward and pivot it.
Basically this little piece of carbon allows them to get closer.

Alternatively you could go for the Remi setup.
Where the rear boot is fixed directly the plate and the top buckle is replaced with a rubber strap.
So you actually come out of the rear hardshell. I went for the double setup and if I didn’t like it would switch to the remi style solution.
It would be an easy adaption.

I may have over complicated this but its so simple, I have no engineering knowledge and hate DIY…
If your UK side id be happy to set it up if you go down this route..


I just thought!!!! The new style release mechanism (grey top piece instead of yellow) connects to the boot boot in a higher location, in theory that would give much more clearance to have them closer!

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#8 Wed, Oct 14, 2009 9:40 AM

sszost
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Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

I broke my ankle 2 years in a row, first time was with a rear toe loop and blew out the tail around 3 ball, and last year was with double Drafts OTF. I bought a Reflex and went back to the rear toe loop on my F1. I have had 6 releases this year skiing with it all in crash situations similar to how the breaks happened. The binding works great. I set the tension about as light as you can set it thinking I would need to increase it, but I have never had a pre release. Its easy to pop off the ski too when you are in the water after a set. If you like the double boot I have read that most like the front Reflex with a looser Whiley style rubber rear. I talked with CP this summer when at the comp in MI and that is the setup he is riding on. He said he really likes the binding, and noticed the difference in just a couple of sets. If you want to buy I would suggest Bennets Ski School 3eventstore.com for service and best pricing. Best of luck!

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#9 Wed, Oct 14, 2009 10:16 AM

mbskier
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Foot Forward: Left

Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

I tore my achilles last year in a pair of double boots.  So I purchased a reflex boot for this season and loved it.  I used a reflex front with a Wileys rubber back binding.  I started the season with it and within 5 sets I was comfortable in it.  Thru the year I made quite a few modifications to it, which are Highly recomended.  1st I cut the back of the boot down.  2nd I cut slots about 1.5 inches long between the bottom and 2nd buckle.  3rd I cut the inside heal piece off (this helped keep the ski from wheelleing)  4th put in a foot bed to take up some of the extra room.  5th cut the lengh of of the straps (shortened them).  These modifications made the boot perform great.  My din setting is 5.  I have released 3 times this year with no problems.  Never have had a pre release.  If you are looking for super performance with safty in mind I would highly recomend it.

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#10 Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:37 PM

Kent Johnson
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Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

Now that Chris Parrish is on a Goode, does anyone know how he has his reflex system set up on the Goode.  He using 400 dual lock or is his plate attached to the ski with epoxy/glue?  Thanks.

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#11 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:35 AM

gpittaras
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Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

Kent Johnson wrote:

Now that Chris Parrish is on a Goode, does anyone know how he has his reflex system set up on the Goode.  He using 400 dual lock or is his plate attached to the ski with epoxy/glue?  Thanks.

This is what I was wondering as well. From a few photos and looking at the video clip of the WR run, it seems both boots (Reflex and Wiley) are on the Goode G10 plate with velcro underneath. I might be wrong.

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#12 Tue, Aug 24, 2010 12:35 PM

Gert
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Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

I just bought A Reflex Binding for about two month ago. My set-up were Reflex front and rib on rear.
I had a lot of problems with it, every time i put in my rear foot the release opend:(
I tried to increase the tenssion on the screw nothing helped. I got A new release unit from the local dealer,
Now it diddent release by entering the rear foot.
Two week´s ago i went to A competition (National). I had A fall Forward over my ski, and here the release diddent work
"I BROKE MY LEG IN 4 DIFFERENT PLACES"  The Doctor told me I´ll newer be able to ski again sad

So from my point,  It is NOT reliable !!!!!!!

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#13 Tue, Aug 24, 2010 1:13 PM

StevenHaines
Karma:   11 
Slalom Mentor
From: Canyon Lake Ca.
Registered: Mon, Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 152
Skis At: Canyon Lake, Ca.
Foot Forward: right
Website

Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

Wade, you state that you like to have your feet close together. Is there a point that they become too close? Or is it all personal preferance? I recently realized that I had 1.75" or more spacing on my hard shells. I did some mods to bring them closer. I have size 10.5 feet and have my ankle spacing at 12" now. I'm un-sure of the toe spacing, but would think it's around 1". Should I go closer? It seems like it'd be easier to get your hips/com up on the front of the ski a little better with the feet being closer. What's your opinion on this? Unfortunately, I can't test them due to a back injury that might keep me off the water for the rest of the season. It's starting to make me crazy!

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#14 Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:39 AM

ColinCanski
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From: Kent, England
Registered: Sat, May 17, 2008
Posts: 83
Skis At: Gosfield WSC
Foot Forward: Right

Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

Gert wrote:

I just bought A Reflex Binding for about two month ago. My set-up were Reflex front and rib on rear.
I had a lot of problems with it, every time i put in my rear foot the release opend:(
I tried to increase the tenssion on the screw nothing helped. I got A new release unit from the local dealer,
Now it diddent release by entering the rear foot.
Two week´s ago i went to A competition (National). I had A fall Forward over my ski, and here the release diddent work
"I BROKE MY LEG IN 4 DIFFERENT PLACES"  The Doctor told me I´ll newer be able to ski again sad

So from my point,  It is NOT reliable !!!!!!!

Gert

Did the front release mech, release when you were sitting in the water after a pass and you 'jabbed' your rear foot in to the rear with the ski underneath you?


Ski to Live - Live to Ski

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#15 Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:26 PM

Shark
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From: the shores of Sproat Lake
Registered: Wed, Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 78
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Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

Sorry to hear that Gert. This is serious so I will do the best I can to explain our findings and why we do what we do.

In fact I was talking to someone today about what happens with the Silvretta 404 or 500 units. If the boot can roll side to side, the boot generates much more force on the Silvretta 404 heel and pops the release. It's like prying the release open. We call it a "SIDE - OUT" release. So it sounds like Gert was moving his front leg out (which is natural) when putting on his rear boot, forcing the boot in a sideways roll and prying or popping the release unit.

OK so now what people do to prevent this is CRANK the tension to high levels. But the Silvretta unit will not release  over the front unless it's at something reasonable like the low range of the unit (DIN 4 to 5 etc.).

The answer is to build a more stable heel platform and use a more robust boot, and softer cuff  so that the lower shell will not roll as easily.

Both CP and Willy are on custom modified setups. I have seen both of them - using the old Riedell lower cut boots.

We have made double setups like these pictured. About spacing: it's all about getting your feet in the design location of the ski - front properly positioned on the flat spot and the rear positioned so as to activate the ski's design rocker. On a larger ski 67" + you need to be spaced near ~12"+ to do this. The smaller skis less. Spacing on a 66.25" I am 12" which is about the same as your #2 USA skier = JT!  Because we use a toe clamp system the Double Setups the boots can be touching even shaved for close spacing - see the pix below.


http://twitpic.com/27n5ld


http://twitpic.com/27n5rm

Last edited by Shark (Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:36 PM)

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#16 Thu, Aug 26, 2010 6:38 AM

2gofaster
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Slalom Mentor
From: Cypress, Tx
Registered: Sun, Jun 1, 2008
Posts: 337

Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

Paul, Is there a reason you use the 404 and not the 500 release? Or maybe you do and I've just not seen it. Just curious. I assumed there had to be a technical reason for you to stay with it over the newer unit.


Shane Hill

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#17 Thu, Aug 26, 2010 11:30 AM

Shark
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From: the shores of Sproat Lake
Registered: Wed, Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 78
Website

Re: Reflex hard shell bindings

Sure couple of reasons - Skier feedback (pro team, customers) did not like 500's. They are heavier and bulkier. The 500's have no mounting base and are not compatible with the 1000's of setups already out there.

The deal is Silvretta has not manufactured the 404 for years. Worldwide stock is GONE.  You can only get the 500's new, and even then hard to find someone in Silvretta USA who will listen to the plight of water skiers.

We got lucky and snapped up a massive lot of lightly used team stock. We strip the bindings to recover the minty 404's and 400's. So we are the only source in the world now for these units. We have stock for the next couple of seasons.

We designed the Air Heel clamp which can swap in for a 404 release. This could be used for slalom if made in a release mode:

http://twitpic.com/1yifhl I have this on my trick ski now, not tested in a slalom format (yet!)

Last edited by Shark (Thu, Aug 26, 2010 11:36 AM)

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